🔴💊 Engine Oil Red Pill Thread: Only Post If You Have UOA - Official Honda Civic Type R K20C1 Engine Oil Analysis

[cryptolime]

May I suggest opening a seperate thread for this potential can of worms.

There is a thread I'll link below that I suspect you will find compelling reading. Fair warning, it's 150+ pages long. I'm a believer by the way, it's just that this seemingly simple question has the ability to turn into an apocalyptic thread hijack for existing topics.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/valvoline-restore-and-protect.381635/page-154

gotcha. don't want to hijack your thread. and i've been following that BITOG thread. people seem to like it.

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[AspecR]

anyone try Valvoline Restore & Protect? Kind of want to try it but feels gimmicky

Haven’t tried it but you can’t go wrong with it. Valvoline is reputable brand and actually quite underrated even though they’ve been around for ages

 

[joshinthecity]

gotcha. don't want to hijack your thread. and i've been following that BITOG thread. people seem to like it.

No worries. (This isn't my thread BTW).

 

[PrecordFK7]

Here's a virgin oil analysis of liqui moly molygen 5w30

Here's my UOA of Liqui-moly Molygen 5w30 after 2 track days to compare with the virgin sample, although they're different labs.

 

[Ktrw]

Here's my UOA of Liqui-moly Molygen 5w30 after 2 track days to compare with the virgin sample, although they're different labs.

This just an additive package thing but, Blackstone has the virgin calcium (ZDDP and others too tbh) at 1161 and your UOA from a different lab has the calcium at 1549? That is an insane difference lol. Were you running a different oil prior to this OC?

 

[PrecordFK7]

This just an additive package thing but, Blackstone has the virgin calcium at 1161 and your UOA from a different lab has the calcium at 1549? That is an insane difference lol. Were you running a different oil prior to this OC?

I did notice that big difference. I have not, I've been running Liqui-moly Molygen 5w30 for the past 3-4 oil changes now.

 

[LogicalCC]

Hi All,

Sharing my results for my first oil change and first lab analysis with Blackstone:

1. Oil Brand and Viscosity - OEM (assuming Honda Ultimate 0W-20)
2. Miles on Oil - 2,678
3. Track Use or Street Use (or mix) - Street Use
4. Engine Temp Ranges Observed - Varied, but nothing above 220°F...so far (very light driving, minimal spirited/continuous pulls)
5. Modifications - Stock motor, PRL HVI intake, front resonator delete, Hondata basemap tune (93 octane)
6. UOA Report Screenshot or Attachment - Attached.
7. Optional: Oil change interval history or patterns (e.g. every 2K mi / every 3 track days): This is the first oil change. I will likely be changing the oil every 2k-3k miles.

 

[Ktrw]

Hi All,

Sharing my results for my first oil change and first lab analysis with Blackstone:

1. Oil Brand and Viscosity - OEM (assuming Honda Ultimate 0W-20)
2. Miles on Oil - 2,678
3. Track Use or Street Use (or mix) - Street Use
4. Engine Temp Ranges Observed - Varied, but nothing above 220°F...so far (very light driving, minimal spirited/continuous pulls)
5. Modifications - Stock motor, PRL HVI intake, front resonator delete, Hondata basemap tune (93 octane)
6. UOA Report Screenshot or Attachment - Attached.
7. Optional: Oil change interval history or patterns (e.g. every 2K mi / every 3 track days): This is the first oil change. I will likely be changing the oil every 2k-3k miles.

"Kept it's viscosity" and it's 6.5 which is in the 16 grade range according to SAE grades. I have no idea why Blackstone chooses their own viscosity range seemingly. Mine was 6.3cst on my factory fill, which is also garbage. I would recommend switching to a different oil that can at least stay in the 20 grade range which is 6.9-<9.3.

 

[johnloov]

Hi All,

Sharing my results for my first oil change and first lab analysis with Blackstone:

1. Oil Brand and Viscosity - OEM (assuming Honda Ultimate 0W-20)
2. Miles on Oil - 2,678
3. Track Use or Street Use (or mix) - Street Use
4. Engine Temp Ranges Observed - Varied, but nothing above 220°F...so far (very light driving, minimal spirited/continuous pulls)
5. Modifications - Stock motor, PRL HVI intake, front resonator delete, Hondata basemap tune (93 octane)
6. UOA Report Screenshot or Attachment - Attached.
7. Optional: Oil change interval history or patterns (e.g. every 2K mi / every 3 track days): This is the first oil change. I will likely be changing the oil every 2k-3k miles.

Looks good.

The golden rule for max longevity is changing the oil every ~2500 miles.

I ran 2 hard track days at COTA and 1 hard open track day at G2 Motorsports on Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20 .... Should have results next month.

Based on what I'm seeing in the data the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20 ran at a max water temp at 217F. The Honda Ultimate virgin oil sample came out with a 7.99CST at 100C rating and the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum came back from Blackstone with a ~8.3CST at 100C thickness. That translated to 212c ( Honda Ultimate ) vs 217c ( Pennzoil Ultra Platinum ) 0W-20's and the ambient temp was very similar to before at COTA ( actually a bit few degrees cooler this time at COTA ).

What are known knowns are:

1) Change the oil 2-3 track days or 2500 miles with a API SP/SQ engine oil
2) Going thicker from the base Honda Engine 0W-20 to a thicker oil, does, increase engine water temps.

What I am expecting is the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum to perform better as now we know it starts with a base Group 3+ engine oil vs the Honda Ultimate which starts with a Group 3.

I will have much more precise data on this once I pull the track logs and get the results back from Blackstone.

Keep the data coming!

 

[zumbooruk]

I know very little about oil, and I never tracked a car.

But I am wondering out loud:

Since I do not intend to track the car nor stress the engine, i.e. heat will not be an issue, nor will oil breaking down.

and since 5W30 is what's recommended by Honda everywhere else (I believe that 0W20 in the USA due to CAFE, i.e. if no CAFE, USA would also be 5W30, right?)

Wrong... should have researched before posting, sorry.

0W20 is the default/basic recommendation.

5W30 is listed as an alternative everywhere except North America and Asia-Pacific (though Japan does list 5W30 as alternative)

10W-40 is recommended in GCC (Middle East Gulf states) over 20°C

But I would still like to get your opinion/recommendation for non-track use:

Therefore, doesn't it make sense for a daily street driven car to use 5W30 (especially in SoCal where it does not go below freezing) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and change the oil (and filter) every 4-5,000 miles?

My goal is to keep my car running for as long as I can, and from what I currently understand (lots of reading and watching videos, trying to separate facts from fiction), 5W30 will be better for engine longevity

 

[thatonedaveguy]

I know very little about oil, and I never tracked a car.

But I am wondering out loud:

Since I do not intend to track the car nor stress the engine, i.e. heat will not be an issue, nor will oil breaking down.

and since 5W30 is what's recommended by Honda everywhere else (I believe that 0W20 in the USA due to CAFE, i.e. if no CAFE, USA would also be 5W30, right?)

Wrong... should have researched before posting, sorry.

0W20 is the default/basic recommendation.

5W30 is listed as an alternative everywhere except North America and Asia-Pacific (though Japan does list 5W30 as alternative)

10W-40 is recommended in GCC (Middle East Gulf states) over 20°C

But I would still like to get your opinion/recommendation for non-track use:

Therefore, doesn't it make sense for a daily street driven car to use 5W30 (especially in SoCal where it does not go below freezing) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and change the oil (and filter) every 4-5,000 miles?

My goal is to keep my car running for as long as I can, and from what I currently understand (lots of reading and watching videos, trying to separate facts from fiction), 5W30 will be better for engine longevity

Some knowledge for ya:

For a normal daily driver, the primary source of engine wear over the entire life of the engine is cold starts.

0W-20 provides better protection than 5W-30 for cold starts.

 

[Ktrw]

I know very little about oil, and I never tracked a car.

But I am wondering out loud:

Since I do not intend to track the car nor stress the engine, i.e. heat will not be an issue, nor will oil breaking down.

and since 5W30 is what's recommended by Honda everywhere else (I believe that 0W20 in the USA due to CAFE, i.e. if no CAFE, USA would also be 5W30, right?)

Wrong... should have researched before posting, sorry.

0W20 is the default/basic recommendation.

5W30 is listed as an alternative everywhere except North America and Asia-Pacific (though Japan does list 5W30 as alternative)

10W-40 is recommended in GCC (Middle East Gulf states) over 20°C

But I would still like to get your opinion/recommendation for non-track use:

Therefore, doesn't it make sense for a daily street driven car to use 5W30 (especially in SoCal where it does not go below freezing) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and change the oil (and filter) every 4-5,000 miles?

My goal is to keep my car running for as long as I can, and from what I currently understand (lots of reading and watching videos, trying to separate facts from fiction), 5W30 will be better for engine longevity

Get a good 0W-20 like PUP or similar, and you're good. 3-5k miles or every 6 months, whichever comes first, if you're not going to do UOA.

 

[Rhorn]

I know very little about oil, and I never tracked a car.

But I am wondering out loud:

Since I do not intend to track the car nor stress the engine, i.e. heat will not be an issue, nor will oil breaking down.

and since 5W30 is what's recommended by Honda everywhere else (I believe that 0W20 in the USA due to CAFE, i.e. if no CAFE, USA would also be 5W30, right?)

Wrong... should have researched before posting, sorry.

0W20 is the default/basic recommendation.

5W30 is listed as an alternative everywhere except North America and Asia-Pacific (though Japan does list 5W30 as alternative)

10W-40 is recommended in GCC (Middle East Gulf states) over 20°C

But I would still like to get your opinion/recommendation for non-track use:

Therefore, doesn't it make sense for a daily street driven car to use 5W30 (especially in SoCal where it does not go below freezing) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and change the oil (and filter) every 4-5,000 miles?

My goal is to keep my car running for as long as I can, and from what I currently understand (lots of reading and watching videos, trying to separate facts from fiction), 5W30 will be better for engine longevity

It really doesn't matter tbh. 0W20 or 5W30. You dont really live in an extreme climate that's very hot or cold.

What matters more is the oil brand you use and the frequency of your oil change intervals

 

[Spart]

This is probably one of the best videos Lake Speed Jr. has put out:



This must have been quite expensive to produce.

Some of these oils were API and some not. I suspect a lot of store brand API oils with more conventional synthetic blends would perform closest to the M1 or PUP.

For those concerned about oil temp on track, the Driven LS 30 did really well.

For those concerned about wear characteristics, the Liquimoly stood out to me as having both low wear metals and low propensity for turbo deposits.

 

[zumbooruk]

This is probably one of the best videos Lake Speed Jr. has put out:



This must have been quite expensive to produce.

Some of these oils were API and some not. I suspect a lot of store brand API oils with more conventional synthetic blends would perform closest to the M1 or PUP.

For those concerned about oil temp on track, the Driven LS 30 did really well.

For those concerned about wear characteristics, the Liquimoly stood out to me as having both low wear metals and low propensity for turbo deposits.

Thanks,

I do suffer from CDO and a recovering perfectionist who keeps falling off the wagon.

I am probably over analyzing and overthinking my quest for the perfect oil that will keep my engine and turbo running forever. (this is probably going to be my last car, as I do not believe that there will ever be any fun-to-drive car with four doors and a clutch pedal in the future, and I will not be caught dead in a clutchless car unless it is my hearse)

I did some more reading about Liqui Moly, it seems that there are several versions of 0W20 (based on earlier post that 0W20 will be better for cold starts).

I eliminated the manufacturer specific versions (VW, Land Rover, Volvo, MB, etc) which left the following:

Special Tec AA - Asia/America (whatever that means)
Top Tec 6600 - overall best?
Molygen New Generation - best high engine load / track focused?

out of these, it seems that the Top Tec 6600 might be better than Molygen for my application of dailly street driving, no track. whereas Molygen might be better for occasional track use?

Does this seems right?

I collected the following data for each, not really knowing what each means...

Biggest difference seem to be VI and NOACK and Top Tec 6600 has the best numbers.

Yet, even though I am a math major, I have learned in my old age that numbers don't mean everything...

Property	Top Tec 6600	Special Tec AA	Molygen New Generation	Pennzoil Ultra Platinum
Viscosity Index (VI)	180	172	165	172
NOACK Volatility (%)	11.0	11.5	11.8	12.5
HTHS Viscosity (mPa·s at 150°C)	≥2.6	≥2.6	≥2.6	2.6 (meets ILSAC GF-6 min)
KV100 (mm²/s)	8.50	8.5	8.5	8.8
KV40 (mm²/s)	43.0	44.5	45.0	46.3
Flash Point (°C)	230	220	220	224
Pour Point (°C)	-48	-45	-42	-48
TBN (mg KOH/g)	8.3	8.7	8.1	est. ~7.5-8 from similar Pennzoil full synthetics

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