🔴💊 Engine Oil Red Pill Thread: Only Post If You Have UOA - Official Honda Civic Type R K20C1 Engine Oil Analysis

[iforgettopee]

Here's a virgin oil analysis of liqui moly molygen 5w30

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[johnloov]

Here's a UOA of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w40 with one very hot track day - ambient temp was 101 degrees - I went with 5w40 with the expectation that it would sheer down from the heat... coolant temps touched 240 at least once, if not several times, and it was my signal to let the car cool off a bit.

but after having done a track day with liqui moly 5w30 I think there is a noticeable temperature difference - 5w40 runs hotter and recovers slower than 5w30
For my latest fill, I went with liqui moly 0w20 with a quart of 5w30 that I had leftover from the previous change.

The UOA saying the oil is thin for a 5w40 does not surprise me at all, but it was still in range for a 5w40

I look forward to posting the liqui moly 5w30 UOA next.

mods: no oil cooler - WOT cooling tray & spoon hood vent, factory rad & coolant tank, phearable tune, carbon turbo inlet, cat-back exhaust

first: honda factory fill
second: mobil1 5w30
third: PUP 5w40

Great data—thank you.

“After a track day with Liqui Moly 5W-30, there’s a noticeable temperature difference—5W-40 runs hotter and recovers slower than 5W-30.”

“I chose 5W-40 expecting it to shear down with heat… Coolant touched 240 °F at least once, which was my cue to cool the car.”

Your KV100 (post-run cSt) on 5W-40 mirrors what we’ve seen on cars that reached ~240 °F coolant running thicker 5W-30s.

What the data is pointing to so far:

1. Thicker oils raise temps on stock cars and slow recovery. I see the same pattern: as my engine shed break-in residue and I kept flushing on 0W-20, peak temps dropped and recovery improved (Laguna Seca, repeated sessions).
2. Hotter ≠ safer. If a thicker grade pushes oil/coolant higher, the in-service viscosity advantage shrinks and oxidation accelerates. Our UOAs reflect this trend, and Lake Speed Jr. has echoed the same principle.
3. There’s no evidence against running a 0W-20 with short HPDE intervals (2–3 track days) when hot-oil pressure is in spec.
4. Race precedent: the F4 K20C1 package runs 0W-20 with short drains and consistent lap performance.
5. Context matters: the Spoon 25-hour Type R uses PAO 5W-30, but that’s a built engine with extensive cooling (and a stock turbo and boost for reliability).

Next step: I’m switching to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20 (VOA ~8.3 cSt @100 °C) and will log two hard COTA days + one full G2 day—capturing max ECT, oil temp, and hot oil pressure—then post the UOAs. That should move us closer to a clear, data-driven conclusion.

When I update Lake Speed Jr., his response is “The data doesn't lie”

 

[cryptolime]

thinner oils also have less drag and don't rob as much power as thicker oils. although, most won't notice the difference unless you're running a 40 weight when it calls for a 20.

 

[Ktrw]

Plenty of forum posts about Honda race team oil choices, and Honda recently stated, "Formula R will be offered in 6 viscosity grades including 0W-40, the same formulation used in the championship-winning IMSA Civic Type R TCR race car."

....and we're still just running in circles on this thread and posting ChatGPT responses instead of using our brains and trying to understand well known physics. Why did I expect anything else to happen in a thread about engine oil lol.

Solve your track related engine oil temperature issues with heat exchangers and choose an engine oil viscosity that is optimal for your bearing clearances at the oil temperature you see on track. I don't understand why that is so difficult to accept. Honda specifies 0W-20 and 5W-30 for street use, depending on where you are in the world, which correlates to the oil film thickness necessary for the bearing clearances in the engine. Oil viscosity decreases as temperature increases, so you may need to go up in viscosity. Something being neglected in this thread is HTHS viscosity, which is very important for track use.

 

[Lust]

Plenty of forum posts about Honda race team oil choices, and Honda recently stated, "Formula R will be offered in 6 viscosity grades including 0W-40, the same formulation used in the championship-winning IMSA Civic Type R TCR race car."

....and we're still just running in circles on this thread and posting ChatGPT responses instead of using our brains and trying to understand well known physics. Why did I expect anything else to happen in a thread about engine oil lol.

People get really neurotic about engine oil lol. I follow these principles:

1. Use a high quality fully synthetic oil. I will only use Motul 300v for tracked vehicles.

2. Follow manufacture recommended OCI. I think a good sweet spot is 5-7k miles on a full synthetic. Can verify oil performance and engine wear via UOA.

3. Monitor oil temps and oil pressures if the car is driven spiritedly. If the engine oil is getting hot, add a cooler. If the pressure is low, go for a heavier weight oil.

4. Always warm up the car correctly. Idle until revs drop then drive lightly until coolant and oil is up to temp.

 

[johnloov]

The purpose of this thread is to follow what the data says. If you have data that proves or disproves certain theories, please provide it for the community. The oil UOAs and water temp data is not AI generated. It’s real experiences of real world use on track.

There was a myth and a lot of controversy that you can’t race on 0w-20 with the stock engine as it doesn’t provide enough protection - that myth was busted with data and experts. Probably most important is to ensure your oil levels are at the top of the dipstick vs oil viscosity and to change it frequently 2-3 track days 2000 miles.

Yes there are other race versions of the type R running thicker oils with mods. This is also true.

Application, dictates formulation.

This thread is only to let the data let us see what the truth is vs. speculation on brands, oil viscosities, etc.

Let’s keep this channel clean and continue to post data.

Many thanks

 

[Ktrw]

The purpose of this thread is to follow what the data says. If you have data that proves or disproves certain theories, please provide it for the community. The oil UOAs and water temp data is not AI generated. It’s real experiences of real world use on track.

There was a myth and a lot of controversy that you can’t race on 0w-20 with the stock engine as it doesn’t provide enough protection - that myth was busted with data and experts. Probably most important is to ensure your oil levels are at the top of the dipstick vs oil viscosity and to change it frequently 2-3 track days 2000 miles.

Yes there are other race versions of the type R running thicker oils with mods. This is also true.

Application, dictates formulation.

This thread is only to let the data let us see what the truth is vs. speculation on brands, oil viscosities, etc.

Let’s keep this channel clean and continue to post data.

Many thanks

Asking an AI chatbot isn't "data" it is a potentially biased accumulation of information with unknown sources that can also be generated to an extent. Depending on the prompt you give an LLM (and which one you're using), that can change the perspective of the response. Aside from that, I doubt anyone on here wants to read a whole page of AI responses about oil.

It would be nice if we could stick to: here are my driving conditions, car setup, and these are the results. If we find legitimate data with a source, then we post it and discuss it, etc.

I also agree that application dictates chemistry, like Lake Speed Jr. says, but your responses here make it seem like you're trying to find every way to discredit using viscosities other than 0W-20. From the data accumulated, it seems like there is a wide variety of oils/viscosities we can use depending on our use case. Honestly, the K20C is such a good engine that we really don't even need to be neurotic about it like @Lust said. Regardless, I am still interested in trying to figure out if there are some oils that standout from the rest, like you originally said a while back.

 

[johnloov]

Thank you for the feedback and you have good points.

My personal Goals are to push my stock type R on track and optimize these three variables.

1) Best UOA data with lowest metal wear scores

2) Coolest Engine Temps

3) Maximum horsepower efficiency

Currently only the 0w-20 engine oils with frequent oil changes ( 2-3 track days 2000 miles ) maximized those results for my application. If I move to a 5w30 5w40 as recommended by some on the stock engine, it doesn’t work as well unless you upgrade cooling for track.

If the data is incorrect please provide corrections; thanks

Regarding Motul 300V - The manufacturer recommends 5,000 miles or 6 months if used for normal street driving. For racing use or mixed track day use, change Motul 300V every 1,500-2000 miles, 3 months, or every 2 to 3 track days.

 

[Lust]

Thank you for the feedback and you have good points.

My personal Goals are to push my stock type R on track and optimize these three variables.

1) Best UOA data with lowest metal wear scores

2) Coolest Engine Temps

3) Maximum horsepower efficiency

Currently only the 0w-20 engine oils with frequent oil changes ( 2-3 track days 2000 miles ) maximized those results for my application. If I move to a 5w30 5w40 as recommended by some on the stock engine, it doesn’t work as well unless you upgrade cooling for track.

If the data is incorrect please provide corrections; thanks

Regarding Motul 300V - The manufacturer recommends 5,000 miles or 6 months if used for normal street driving. For racing use or mixed track day use, change Motul 300V every 1,500-2000 miles, 3 months, or every 2 to 3 track days.

That OCI seems a lot more frequent than my findings and what Blackstone recommended when I ran 300v. Though I don’t see any harm in changing your oil sooner other than a lighter wallet. The only time I recommend oil staying longer is for the initial fill on these Type Rs.

 

[johnloov]

Hey, since you're going to try 5w-30 next, order your Motul 300V 5w-30 from FCPEuro, it's basically a hack - free oil. You purchase it once, drain it and ship it back to them, and they will credit you, and you can do that like 4-5 times a year. They honor that through their lifetime policy.

 

[cryptolime]

Hey, since you're going to try 5w-30 next, order your Motul 300V 5w-30 from FCPEuro, it's basically a hack - free oil. You purchase it once, drain it and ship it back to them, and they will credit you, and you can do that like 4-5 times a year. They honor that through their lifetime policy.

wtf? too bad they don't sell Honda parts.

 

[johnloov]

You can also do it with - Front brake pads like Hawks dtc 60s fit and a few others - also Castrol SRF brake fluid

 

[johnloov]

Interesting observation, today ran COTA hard in advanced group, and with the pennzoil ultra platinum 0w-20 which is slightly thicker higher ~ 8.3cst vs 7.99 cst honda ultimate and the ambient temp was a few degrees cooler than last time, it ran at 217F max water temp vs last time at 212F. I was surprised with just a slight increase in CST the temp difference was there. Thicker oil does increase temps. Instructor also told me if you are seeing 240F water temps, that’s dangerous. Also confirmed thicker oil will hold heat as we know now, and takes longer to cool down. I’ll have more detailed data later….. keep it cool

 

[cryptolime]

anyone try Valvoline Restore & Protect? Kind of want to try it but feels gimmicky

 

[joshinthecity]

anyone try Valvoline Restore & Protect? Kind of want to try it but feels gimmicky

May I suggest opening a seperate thread for this potential can of worms.

There is a thread I'll link below that I suspect you will find compelling reading. Fair warning, it's 150+ pages long. I'm a believer by the way, it's just that this seemingly simple question has the ability to turn into an apocalyptic thread hijack for existing topics.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/valvoline-restore-and-protect.381635/page-154

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