992 GT3 vs. FL5 Type R

[Rhorn]

I feel the same way with the FL5.

What I like the most is the "under the radar" of it. Those who know REALLY know. Most think I am a kid with a wing issue. The CW is timeless. My mechanic LOVED the simplicity. His words. (you have to really admire the engineering that goes into making a car drive the way these do that is "simple"....not rear steering or odd coatings...just pragmatic, elegant engineering. Porsche is very complex...change plugs.....the design assumes excess labor. Up until recently they and their owners have talked them up and up...that bubble seems to have burst. I follow the 992 gt3 threads still on rennlist - there are some major engine issues brewing for some of these 9k rpm engines...and the engines are NOT affordable to a normal person...

https://rennlist.com/forums/992-gt3...1-must-read-gt3-engine-oil-pump-failures.html

In my hands, the FL5 gives me as much fun ON THE STREET as my gt2, perhaps really even more. The issue is this....you can use the FL5, push it, feel it. The gt2 was so fast on the street that to really have fun I might have killed someone or myself. I know of a lot of "wrapped around a tree stories" with 911 (old and new). I did HPDE to avoid that - but it made street use of the car boring. Seems now in my older and wiser self pointless. Things "they all do that" seemed to be plentiful with the Porsches...owners don't mention the negative in public....the 911's all cost a lot to keep on the road no matter what stuff they push out.

I do dream of a Singer one day...but that would cause me to worry even more about "events"....maybe if I win powerball.

Yeah its a big reason why I like the FL5 and really love the philosophy of a hot hatchback. Never had anything as expensive as the 911 but after I got my CTR I drove my Mustang less and less because it attracted alot of attention and wasn't as low key.

The thing I really love about these cars is that they can withstand the abuse (within reason) and when something brakes the cost is much easier to stomach than having to cough up $35k for an engine replacement like in my Mustang.

Definitely has compromises and isnt the best but there is value and its overall a good platform. The fun factor goes up when you don't have to worry about dropping thousands of dollars in track insurance and hoping you have no accidents. I understand now why people like the Miata so much

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[joshinthecity]

How did Honda cheat? They used different tires?

The car didn't overheat.... so there's something funky going on for sure..

 

[Rhorn]

The car didn't overheat.... so there's something funky going on for sure..

AC was removed

 

[jcb]

They may have had to put more safety into the car. Certainly cameras.

We do know they likely had at least 1/2 a tank of fuel....so 40lbs extra more or less.....due to the fuel starvation issues of the car....other companies likely run low fuel levels to save weight.

They may have even put holes in the undertray like aftermarket people are doing to keep it cool....we'll never know.

 

[optronix]

I do dream of a Singer one day...but that would cause me to worry even more about "events"....maybe if I win powerball.

Don't we all? But from what I understand they've gone from the almost-believable-to-attain ~$400k floor for entry when I first heard of Singer to now it's pretty much $700k just to get in line, if not 7 figures. Again- I'm not sure who these cars are actually for. Whatever train that takes you to the cabal of elite that can realistically afford these cars has left the station for me. My income has gone up incrementally over the past 10 years, but it feels like cost of luxury goods like this have gone up exponentially. I can't keep up.

Whole other conversation, I digress.

They are absolute works of art though. I would NOT take one on a track, which does kind of defeat the purpose...

 

[Evox787]

Don't we all? But from what I understand they've gone from the almost-believable-to-attain ~$400k floor for entry when I first heard of Singer to now it's pretty much $700k just to get in line, if not 7 figures. Again- I'm not sure who these cars are actually for. Whatever train that takes you to the cabal of elite that can realistically afford these cars has left the station for me. My income has gone up incrementally over the past 10 years, but it feels like cost of luxury goods like this have gone up exponentially. I can't keep up.

Whole other conversation, I digress.

They are absolute works of art though. I would NOT take one on a track, which does kind of defeat the purpose...

Sadly, that’s the life those cars live. The people who can afford them—most of them buy them as investments: Singer, RWB, Magnus Walker, and the stock ones. They can afford to do it, but all of those cars just get passed between hands, maybe seeing 500 miles of use.

Props to the people who can do that. My thinking is, if I bought the car, I would enjoy it. My FL5—I’ve owned it for a little over a year, and it already has close to 30k miles. If I buy a car like that, it’s because I have the money not just to purchase it but to maintain it, and I would use it as much as possible.

They build those cars more to demonstrate what they can do rather than for track purposes, because they know most buyers won’t actually use them that way. If I ever own a GT4 RS, you better believe I’ll be driving it to every supermarket and every spot I can be . I know I’ll be more noticeable, and sure, some idiot in an Altima could total the car—but if I pay six figures for something, I’m going to enjoy it.

Again, I don’t have that kind of money, so I can’t say for sure, but that’s how I feel.

 

[jcb]

I'd drive the thing....if I could afford it....won't happen obviously. But one can dream (powerball win would be required)

 

[ElpacoSV]

So, if I understand correctly, with the CTR platform we get 80% of the performance of a GT3 spending less money. That to me sounds like a real winner.

 

[Robo7]

So, if I understand correctly, with the CTR platform we get 80% of the performance of a GT3 spending less money. That to me sounds like a real winner.

More like 63% (315hp/502hp) of the performance but it’s 1/5 the price so your point stands. Still a performance bargain.

 

[m3bs]

Based on C&D Lightning lap times of 2:40.6 and 2:58.8, the CTR is 12% slower than the GT3….. Choose your measuring stick. The one that matters most to me is driving satisfaction in the real world, and given the realities of public roads for most of us, I’ll take the CTR.

 

[g0al3d]

Based on C&D Lightning lap times of 2:40.6 and 2:58.8, the CTR is 12% slower than the GT3….. Choose your measuring stick. The one that matters most to me is driving satisfaction in the real world, and given the realities of public roads for most of us, I’ll take the CTR.

Yeah it's damn near impossible to touch the limit on a GT3 on public roads, it's very difficult on a track tbh. To be fair though trying to compare the actual driving experience of an FL5 to Gt3 just isn't even close though... the Gt3 is on a whole other level hard to explain but its not that close. Unless its raining or I have to sit in bumper to bumper traffic it's GT3 all day every day. That's not an indictment on the FL5, it's just the GT3 is that good.

 

[jcb]

Had a gt2 with hydraulic steering....that was better, but now in the current cars....I would put steering on the gt3 about 5-8% better max...key is to keep the honda on ET60 wheels - it really matters. Sport or comfort mode for suspension (R is too stiff unless on track imho). Clutch is meh - all of them can be improved to taste via aftermarket. The stock Honda shifter is 95% as good as the GT3. Put an acuity in and it is perhaps better than the stock Gt3. Note, I had a CAE shifter in my P car....that is next level for both platforms.

The problem with a GT3 is in the costs...to acquire, keep, and then in what you give up in practicality.

Example: air filter on a gt3 992 is 700 dollars and bumper has to come off....90 minute job for an expert. Chance of damage to paint, etc. For an air filter. Tire, brake, and other consummable costs....and then there is the part no one talks about - the negative attention.

If you go to the lightning lap about I think the FK8 but maybe the FL5, the driver noted the Honda at Oak Tree was 1.5s ahead of the Ford GT in year one of the Lightning Lap...then the Ford GT and pulled ahead on the straight to ultimately have the cars tie.

Tire tech....but also he noted if the Honda was up on power....it would go a lot faster in terms of time....maybe not 15s...but something to think about.

So an FL5, FBO, with smart wheel choices (et60), cup 2's, and say full acuity or hybrid racing shifting stuff....would be quite a bit closer to a GT3.


It then comes down to brand.

LL Bean GoreTex jacket versus Arcteryx if you will... I was PCA, gt2, 993c4s, cae shifters....the whole shebang. But somehow, I sort of like this FL5 a lot. A whole real lot. I don't have to baby it or worry about it. And an air filter is 15 bucks not 700...and I can install it myself. Easily. Hard to say this, but the "engineering of repairability and upkeep" matters a lot too and Honda kills Porsche here.


The one and major area the GT3 wins is sound. A 9k flat six is special.

 

[m3bs]

The one and major area the GT3 wins is sound. A 9k flat six is special.

No argument on that point. My GT4 with open headers doesn’t sound bad either.

 

[Blindeye_03]

All I know is that I rented a GT4 in Vegas and had an instructor with me on the track - that thing can FLY through the corners and yeah while the Type R feels amazing (Ive only driven it on the street), I have no complaints about the Porsche and pushing it as far as I felt comfortable. I know it could have handled more but with it being my first time out, it felt unreal how fast we were going in corners.

 

[JCZ5]

I have been enjoying my FL5 more than my GT cars lately, you can really rev the FL5 out and it is truly more fun to drive a "slow" car fast. Also, the shifter is such a gem to use in traffic.

And in long sweepers on road without going way over the speed limit, the planted feel reminds me very much of the Porsches.

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