How to deal with stock 1-2 gear rev hang?

[Djseto]

Oh wow, I thought Honda took care of this in the FL5. Is it an issue even when auto rev match is turned on?

It’s done for emissions. Pretty sure this was mentioned in one of the videos by @savagegeese.


Here’s more details on why: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...-in-modern-manual-cars-is-there-for-a-reason/

But our engines are direct injected so I think in our case, there is lead condition which also causes emissions issues.

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[Blindeye_03]

I guess we just drive our cars different as it's never bothered me. Properly using the clutch eliminates any jerkiness and I've never had problems with traffic at red lights.

Agree! I've never had an issue driving slow or fast with shifting out of first gear. Now I do shift into second in such a way as to not grind. My FK8 had a pretty bad 1->2 grind.. the FL5 doesn't yet and I would like it to stay that way.

 

[Clark_Kent]

I guess we just drive our cars different as it's never bothered me. Properly using the clutch eliminates any jerkiness and I've never had problems with traffic at red lights.

I don't have issues with jerkiness nor do I have issues with takeoff at lower speeds from traffic lights, stop signs or roundabouts. That's not the sensation that I'm referencing. This has nothing to do with driving technique or one's manual transmission prowess. It's the very noticeable delay (or sometimes a jump) before RPMs drop when you disengage the clutch during spirited driving almost exclusively in the upper part of the rev range - 5,500 RPM+. Hondata has even commented on this and expressly stated this can be tuned out via the software. Rev hang is as real as the pumped in engine sound in +R and as real as disabling the exhaust valve with a fuse pull.

 

[SP R KiD]

I don't have issues with jerkiness nor do I have issues with takeoff at lower speeds from traffic lights, stop signs or roundabouts. That's not the sensation that I'm referencing. This has nothing to do with driving technique or one's manual transmission prowess. It's the very noticeable delay (or sometimes a jump) before RPMs drop when you disengage the clutch during spirited driving almost exclusively in the upper part of the rev range - 5,500 RPM+. Hondata has even commented on this and expressly stated this can be tuned out via the software. Rev hang is as real as the pumped in engine sound in +R and as real as disabling the exhaust valve with a fuse pull.

Out of desire to be educated, could you share a video that correctly explains visually or in the best way possible, rev hang as you're referring to it? I'm an avid googler and am willing to find things myself, but with reference to this topic, it'd be awesome if you could reference content that I can personally understand from the exact perspective you're referring to, as closely as possible. I'm not confident if I go try to find a video, I'll be able to connect with what you're saying.

Would be much appreciated.

 

[Sazabi]

How do you guys deal with fast shifts at stoplights or stop signs without breaking your passenger's necks? I can shift perfectly smooth going from 1-2 at 3k-3.5k rpm but it takes ATLEAST 2 seconds for the revs to drop to 2k rpm to where it shifts smoothly. Kind of embarrassing when I need to go from 0-40 on a busy main street but look like a total tool when an automatic mini van can do exactly what i can do more smoothly without the hassle of working a manual transmission lol. I refuse to tune it to perform how it should out of the factory. I'll replace the transmission oil when i take it in for it's first oil change, but other than that, are there any other ways I can reduce the bucking without replacing anything stock and turning off rev hang? (rev hang was a huge seller...)

Much appreciated for the help.

Hey, totally get you on this. It is annoying especially with some of these impatient drivers who like to ride up on you even at a traffic light. If I feel like I need to make up speed quick, I just ease in the clutch into 2nd and its worked out fine. I've also found that shifting into 2nd below 3k RPM is better in terms of rev hang.

 

[Amm5890]

They have not. You can eliminate it with a tune. Auto rev match has no impact on rev hang, it adjusts engine speed on downshifts, not upshifts.

Car definitely rev matches on up shifts if you have the feature turned on. If you shift super slow it'll blip the throttle or hold it at the right RPM for a second.

 

[Stanleywinthrop]

I don't have issues with jerkiness nor do I have issues with takeoff at lower speeds from traffic lights, stop signs or roundabouts. That's not the sensation that I'm referencing. This has nothing to do with driving technique or one's manual transmission prowess. It's the very noticeable delay (or sometimes a jump) before RPMs drop when you disengage the clutch during spirited driving almost exclusively in the upper part of the rev range - 5,500 RPM+. Hondata has even commented on this and expressly stated this can be tuned out via the software. Rev hang is as real as the pumped in engine sound in +R and as real as disabling the exhaust valve with a fuse pull.

That's awesome, but the OP seems to think that rev-hang has forced him into a binary choice of either accepting an uncomfortable jerk on the 1 - 2 shift or driving like a granny and risking being rear ended at every red light.

As you have now admitted yourself this is not the case and the OP's real problem is his driving technique.

 

[FL5golfer]

1 to 2 shifts are slower than I normally would shift in my previous car which was an FRS. I just had to adjust my shifting style with the FL5 which isn't a huge deal. I could still drive smoothly.

 

[Ktrw]

The 1-2 shift is annoying due to pretty insane rev hang in first gear. I say insane because it feels very artificial and uncharacteristic of the rest of the car. You can do it smoother by pushing in the clutch slower and pausing at the bite point, like people have said, but that doesn't help you go any faster. Some people are probably used to driving jerky and don't notice it or have the ability to drive leisurely and wait a year for revs to drop without psychopaths getting mad behind them.

One of the primary reasons I'm going to tune the car soon is the rev hang and driveability aspects of the car that could be better. As some others have said, I think these negative aspects are a direct result of emissions testing. There are all sorts of weird things the calibration engineers have to do with the throttle and timing of response systems to improve emissions/fuel economy. Greg Banish has discussed this in some podcasts/interviews on YouTube. The OEM calibrators don't want the cars to drive this way; they just have to do it to pass the tests.

 

[Blindeye_03]

Can someone please video themselves driving their car to show this insane rev-hang?

I drove over 100 miles today alone and messed with different gears, and shift points, along with speed and I honestly cant find any.

I put the car at whatever rpm and clutch in and watch the revs just drop right away. If you shift too fast from 1st into 2nd you will/can grind.

When I am putzing around town ill shift from 1st to 2nd gear at 3000 rpm. I let the revs drop to around 1800-2000 rpm when I shift into 2nd. Its smooth and not jerky. Its also smooth and not jerky when I rev out 1st gear. I dont always do that because traction / lack there of.

 

[menikmati]

People love to exaggerate on the Internet.

 

[Ktrw]

Pretty big difference to me switching to my other car with a stock, nothing special, Toyota flywheel that has no rev hang. Takes a minute to adjust when I'm not waiting for revs to fall for the 1-2 shift. If you don't notice or it doesn't bother you, that's great

 

[TheFactor]

Rev hang ? Seriously not feeling any rev hang with stock tune and PIR HVI . My only issue is traction for the 1 to 2 so normally I’ll just short shift her.

 

[Ktrw]

It's one of the first things that a lot of people/tuners do with Hondata flashpros on FK8/FL5/DE5s, not sure what else to say there. This has been discussed for years and years

 

[Blindeye_03]

It's one of the first things that a lot of people/tuners do with Hondata flashpros on FK8/FL5/DE5s, not sure what else to say there. This has been discussed for years and years

Sounds like maybe the Integra has it worse than the Civic?

Take a video and post it here. I am curious about just how bad it is.