Has the 2nd gear grind happened to your FL5 yet?

[Integra23]

It's usually driver error. I'm at nearly 13K miles on mine now and have never had a second gear grind.

I do shift properly with correct hand placement which I feel is important on this transmission. I also rarely redline 1st gear (it's pointless anyway).

Does your 2nd feel different like it has a lockout?
Do you feel it catch downshifting 3rd to second?
With Rev match enabled and up shifting 1st to 2nd does it try and rev match?

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[wolo]

It's usually driver error. I'm at nearly 13K miles on mine now and have never had a second gear grind.

I do shift properly with correct hand placement which I feel is important on this transmission. I also rarely redline 1st gear (it's pointless anyway).

How do you explain there are more driver errors on FL5 2nd gear, compared to other sport cars like STI, GR corolla, z, etc?

You have a good second gear and never grind because you are lucky. It doesn't mean others' second gears are all good or it's usually the driver's fault.

I drove my z more lazily and never got a grind.

 

[Gansan]

How do you explain there are more driver errors on FL5 2nd gear, compared to other sport cars like STI, GR corolla, z, etc?

You have a good second gear and never grind because you are lucky. It doesn't mean others' second gears are all good or it's usually the driver's fault.

I drove my z more lazily and never got a grind.

We don’t have statistical data on whether there are more driver errors. Forum posts are totally unreliable as a way of measuring it, because the demographics of the customers (such as what percentage actually go and look for a forum to join) are different and there are different numbers of cars produced for each model.

 

[wolo]

We don’t have statistical data on whether there are more driver errors. Forum posts are totally unreliable as a way of measuring it, because the demographics of the customers (such as what percentage actually go and look for a forum to join) are different and there are different numbers of cars produced for each model.

You are correct that there is no statistical data because there's nothing the general customers can do and the OEM will do nothing if the quantity of samples is not big enough or critical safety related. Even someone like savagegeese with a lot of influence can hardly get anything from Honda about the gear grind. Not sure if you watched his youtube video about Honda gear grind. It's not for FL5 specifically but can represent Honda transmission in general.


Anyways, Honda transmission is notorious for the gear grinding issue for a reason. Again, you have a good second gear because you are lucky and that doesn't mean other second gears have no issues. Just search "second gear grind" on youtube and tell me what you see. I don't believe Honda drivers like to post videos more than other brand drivers. That's my statistics.

 

[Gansan]

Here are what I think are the intertwined issues:

Gear grinds

• Grinds caused by a dragging clutch--The clutch isn't completely disengaging either by not pressing pedal enough, releasing it slightly too early, or because the adjustment is off, which keeps the gears from matching rpm and allowing the gear to go in. Synchro grinds if you force it.
• Grinds caused by worn or damaged synchronizer--Synchro was previously worn or damaged and grinds all the time. Can be damaged by hard shifting or incomplete clutch disengagement.

Lockouts

• Lockout caused by dragging clutch--A synchro is designed to block the shifter until the gears are matched in RPM. The dragging clutch keeps the rpms from matching until the synchro fights against the engine and manages to get the gear in.. The synchro will eventually get worn out when this keeps happening and can start grinding, see above.
• Lockout caused by hangup of shifter on gate--Caused by physically getting caught on the corner of the shift gate. FK8 had this issue quite clearly. For example, going from 5th to 6th, I had to hold the shifter to the right to make sure it went into 6th smoothly without getting caught. FL5 has redesigned gates with rounded edges to help with this. People can perceive this as being the same as the synchro blocking the shifter but the cause is physically different.

 

[Integra23]

Here are what I think are the intertwined issues:

Gear grinds

• Grinds caused by a dragging clutch--The clutch isn't completely disengaging either by not pressing pedal enough, releasing it slightly too early, or because the adjustment is off, which keeps the gears from matching rpm and allowing the gear to go in. Synchro grinds if you force it.
• Grinds caused by worn or damaged synchronizer--Synchro was previously worn or damaged and grinds all the time. Can be damaged by hard shifting or incomplete clutch disengagement.

Lockouts

• Lockout caused by dragging clutch--A synchro is designed to block the shifter until the gears are matched in RPM. The dragging clutch keeps the rpms from matching until the synchro fights against the engine and manages to get the gear in.. The synchro will eventually get worn out when this keeps happening and can start grinding, see above.
• Lockout caused by hangup of shifter on gate--Caused by physically getting caught on the corner of the shift gate. FK8 had this issue quite clearly. For example, going from 5th to 6th, I had to hold the shifter to the right to make sure it went into 6th smoothly without getting caught. FL5 has redesigned gates with rounded edges to help with this. People can perceive this as being the same as the synchro blocking the shifter but the cause is physically different.

I have never had a grind in any other gear. I have had several manual transmission vehicles in my past and none had a grind issue, Ford,Toyota,Mazda. Granted this is my first Honda so maybe they are different ?.

Now to what you posted.
Mine never seems to go into 2nd easily. I can hold the clutch in for 5 seconds then shift into second and I can feel it bind going into gear. Also the Rev match changes and you can hear and audible difference in rpm. In first press in clutch rpm holding. Shift to 2nd and it catches, when you get it past the snag the rpm blips oddly and it finally gets in gear then I release clutch.

 

[007]

The "you're shifting wrong" comments need to stop. Good Lord!

I've owned nearly a dozen manual transmission cars over the past 25 years, including a '91 Honda Accord, and I've never experienced gear grinding during shifts in any of them.

So, if experienced drivers who have been driving manuals for years are suddenly complaining about gear grinding in the CTR, it's not their shifting that's the problem—it's the car.

 

[ABPDE5]

I have never had a grind in any other gear. I have had several manual transmission vehicles in my past and none had a grind issue, Ford,Toyota,Mazda. Granted this is my first Honda so maybe they are different ?.

Now to what you posted.
Mine never seems to go into 2nd easily. I can hold the clutch in for 5 seconds then shift into second and I can feel it bind going into gear. Also the Rev match changes and you can hear and audible difference in rpm. In first press in clutch rpm holding. Shift to 2nd and it catches, when you get it past the snag the rpm blips oddly and it finally gets in gear then I release clutch.

Sounds like a synchro issue, yeah?

 

[Integra23]

The "you're shifting wrong" comments need to stop. Good Lord!

I've owned nearly a dozen manual transmission cars over the past 25 years, including a '91 Honda Accord, and I've never experienced gear grinding during shifts in any of them.

So, if experienced drivers who have been driving manuals for years are suddenly complaining about gear grinding in the CTR, it's not their shifting that's the problem—it's the car.

Yeah. I'd say 99% of those on this forum are enthusiast's who have had other manuals in the past.
Shifting is pretty simple especially with rev match. Those that say baby first gear I understand and currently do but this is a sports car that is designed by Honda with short gears to rev out. Saying this it shouldn't matter what RPM I shift, grinding isn't acceptable.
Now to get the fluid swapped out this weekend and if it's still an issue CDV removal.

 

[Bigfx]

Yeah. I'd say 99% of those on this forum are enthusiast's who have had other manuals in the past.
Shifting is pretty simple especially with rev match. Those that say baby first gear I understand and currently do but this is a sports car that is designed by Honda with short gears to rev out. Saying this it shouldn't matter what RPM I shift, grinding isn't acceptable.
Now to get the fluid swapped out this weekend and if it's still an issue CDV removal.

What fluid are you going with?

 

[JonathanA0315]

Delete the clutch delay valve; I did it and it’s night and day; the way the car should’ve came. I got some love and some hate for it; I posted my results on Facebook via FL5 enthusiasts group page.

No more granny shifting in fear of the grind; smooth as butter now with quick shifts.

Yeah some people swear that this car has no issues and its all driver fault. Ive been adjusting my driving style to the fl5 but man im kind of on the fence of not keeping it. I was going to do the acuity instruments but i dont want to mod the car. Yeah i saw your post as well and i thought damn that might be the solution. Im giving it some time and then ill decide.

 

[JonathanA0315]

Yes I have a catch/ lockout sensation going into second most of the time.
I'm cautious of it grinding so have slowed shifting where I count to 3 then put it in gear.

I had hard grinds 6 or so times. Once was going straight and under 4k RPMs. The others were mostly turning and hard acceleration from a stop to avoid oncoming traffic.
I haven't touched the master cylinder or clutch delay. I did see a recent FB post with someone having success doing this. I'm down for whatever fixes it.
I have a DE5

I been having the exact issue and its so disappointing that this is what’s going on with a top tier car from Honda. Been driving stick for a while and i think that if i don’t resolve this soon i might sell the car. Just not enjoyable to drive. I really dont want to drop money on a brand new car that should’ve came perfect, regardless if its a Honda.

 

[JonathanA0315]

I'm at 600 miles finally! My issue seems to be me I think, getting more used to the clutch now. I think it was me not depressing it enough honestly.

It aint you bro its the car, i have the same issues and its a on and off thing.

 

[Integra23]

What fluid are you going with?

AC Delco

 

[Websitesdown]

It aint you bro its the car, i have the same issues and its a on and off thing.

Yeah, mine did it again yesterday. Got my sub installed and was driving around and it happened, and I was fully depressed on the clutch no doubt about it this time.

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