FL5 Rear Wing Options — Any Real CFD/Wind Tunnel Data Outside Spoon/Mugen?

[PointByPatrol]

Appreciate the honest answer, that’s exactly the kind of real-world context I’m looking for. Respect for saying you bought the ADRO wing for looks, but still thinking about balance with a splitter. When you say it made a noticeable difference, what did you feel specifically (turn-in, braking stability, high-speed front end)? What splitter are you running and did you change alignment/ride height?

High speed stability was improved, and mid-corner v-min was slightly improved. Some mph was lost in the straights, but I was able to make it up in the corners. It’s a 3” racebred splitter.

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[boostedRationalist]

High speed stability was improved, and mid-corner c-min was slightly improved. Some mph was lost in the straights, but I was able to make it up in the corners.

This makes sense. Appreciate you, hope to see you out there this year!

 

[boostedRationalist]

Let's get to brass tacks then. Your first post was asking all of this, which I totally understand doing your research, because you "want to be competitive at VIR." You still haven't answered my question on your experience at VIR, which I'm asking so we can help you reach your goal of being "competitive". So until you say otherwise, I'm going to assume you have none.

Competitive at VIR is going to be measured on lap times. Period. End of story. If your desired outcome is to be competitive (aka fast), then aero is not how you get there first. Max out the OEM setup, then add Aero to get that last bit of speed. There were 14 of us at VIR last year for the Type R get together, some had aero, some had mods/tunes, and I was 3rd fastest in a stock setup. @PointByPatrol was 2nd in his modded and tuned (400+HP car), and 1st was another instructor in OEM setup who was running cheap blank rotors (not even 2 pc).

Having logged 1000+ miles there, I can tell you only a few places are going to come into play where aero is going to make any difference: the Upper Esses, NASCAR, and Oak Tree. On the straights, more downforce is going to slow you down and that's where the speeds come into play to make it most effective.

If you've never run VIR, the Upper Esses entry in a FL5 can push 120mph and exit 110-120mph (depends on the size of your balls). Aero would help here, especially at the exit, but entry and exit speeds for someone who's never run that track will not be that high. The factory setup is enough here.

NASCAR (Turn 3) is a wide arc left hander than you can carry 70+mph through, but your turn in point, where you track out, and your tires matter more. Apex this wrong at speed and you're going off track. Oak Tree entry can be fast but exiting and apexing that has to more with your brake and the line you choose, and def your tires. You enter faster with aero, but your time to brake and apex is VERY short.

Most of the turns will not be affected by Aero because you likely need lots of speed and BIG aero for it make any useful downforce. This is where CFD data would be super useful. Turn in, under, and oversteer are going to be more easily influenced by your alignment, tires, and braking style.

To your last point, will adding aero upset the car's behavior? Possibly. If you add downforce at the back, you will need lip up front to balance out lift.

Will you be "wasting money"? Absolutely. But hey, it's YOUR money. You do you. But if your goal is faster laps, until I see CFD data, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

@PointByPatrol am I missing anything here?

VIR was mentioned purely as context for where I plan to run so advice could be weighted appropriately — it wasn’t the point of the post.

The point was aero validation and front/rear balance on the FL5. You zeroed in on VIR and turned it into a lap-time/experience audit. Lap times can be useful to compare setups once changes are made — but lap times and aero in the same paragraph doesn’t validate anything. Correlation isn’t causation.

The VIR-specific info you shared is useful and I do plan to run VIR—the condescension isn’t encouraging though. Congrats on your placement.

Wish you the best. See you on track.

 

[Djseto]

I was focusing on helping you reach your desired outcome. It wasn't an audit. But context matters to help you achieve your goals. BTW, there is no actual placement for HDPE events. Your prize is going home with your car the way you arrived. I only mentioned it to illustrate that aero wasnt necessary to acheive the outcome of being competitive. See you out there.

 

[derbo904]

The Honda Access wing goes into some detail what they were trying to achieve with the CF wing changes.

 

[scottjua]

The Honda Access wing goes into some detail what they were trying to achieve with the CF wing changes.

I was just going to to bring this up. The OEM/Modulo Carbon wing had two years of testing to develop.

 

[boostedRationalist]

That OEM carbon is slick AND functional. Love the vortex generators on the underside. Cant find raw numbers but watching that video you can tell there is a lot of passion—hopefully that translates to performance, right LOL. Doesn’t seem like you would *need* to balance the front with this either.

Thanks for the good info y’all—exactly what this post was for! Cheers

 

[TypeRVA]

VIR was mentioned purely as context for where I plan to run so advice could be weighted appropriately — it wasn’t the point of the post.

The point was aero validation and front/rear balance on the FL5. You zeroed in on VIR and turned it into a lap-time/experience audit. Lap times can be useful to compare setups once changes are made — but lap times and aero in the same paragraph doesn’t validate anything. Correlation isn’t causation.

The VIR-specific info you shared is useful and I do plan to run VIR—the condescension isn’t encouraging though. Congrats on your placement.

Wish you the best. See you on track.

sign up for the May Track Day!

 

[B16B]

For something like Mugen, you will need to pair the front lip with the rear wing to gain that additional 25% down-force. They tell you this and I'm sure the side skirt plays a roll.

https://www.mugen-power.com/english/news/detail/id=1407

 

[boostedRationalist]

sign up for the May Track Day!

I was intending to. I think I will get a better feel for the community over the coming months before I do though.

 

[TypeRVA]

It's a very chill group.

if you go to TypeRtrackday.com you can join this discord server as well.

 

[PointByPatrol]

I was intending to. I think I will get a better feel for the community over the coming months before I do though.

We don’t bite! Promise! Exact opposite, we genuinely care, and coach each other to improve on track.

 

[TypeRVA]

We don’t bite! Promise! Exact opposite, we genuinely care, and coach each other to improve on track.

Yeah a bunch of us are real friends now. Literally driving down to NC this weekend to hang out with @PointByPatrol.

 

[boostedRationalist]

We don’t bite! Promise! Exact opposite, we genuinely care, and coach each other to improve on track.

Yeah a bunch of us are real friends now. Literally driving down to NC this weekend to hang out with @PointByPatrol.

Good to know and honestly that’s what I was hoping for. I’m new to track days & tend to dive in and do my homework. I’ve been reading and watching and asking questions. I’m excited to get after it and learn from folks who have seat time.

 

[PointByPatrol]

Good to know and honestly that’s what I was hoping for. I’m new to track days & tend to dive in and do my homework. I’ve been reading and watching and asking questions. I’m excited to get after it and learn from folks who have seat time.

I plan on instructing for the event, but I've already been requested by another student. I wasn't the only instructor in a Type R last year though. If David is going then I'm sure he could make himself available too, and I'd be willing to guarantee that he is going to be there with all of us!

A lot of guys drove from across the country last year, and I'm sure this year will be no different!

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