FL5 Rear Wing Options — Any Real CFD/Wind Tunnel Data Outside Spoon/Mugen?

[boostedRationalist]

Hey y’all! I’m considering a wing/spoiler upgrade, but I’m trying to do this intelligently and keep the car balanced—not just “it looks sick” (though I get that too )

From what I’ve found so far:
• Spoon and Mugen seems to be one of the only companies actually saying they did CFD + wind tunnel testing
• APR / Mugen / Voltex / Varis etc may be functional, but most brands don’t show hard data, so it turns into opinion fast. I’ve seen APR data but not FL5 specific

What I’m trying to understand from people who have been down this road:

1) How did you choose your wing/spoiler?
• Actual performance reasoning?
• Track experience?
• Just aesthetics?
• “Brand trust” (APR/Mugen/Varis etc)?

2) Are you balancing the front?

If you increase rear downforce, are you doing anything up front to match?
• front lip?
• splitter?
• canards?
• undertray stuff?

3) Why are people deleting the wing?

I see tons of FL5s going wingless for the clean look — does that create any noticeable high-speed stability change? Or is it basically irrelevant for street?

4) Wing risers…

I see wing risers everywhere:
• are they actually improving flow / effectiveness?
• or just raising the wing into turbulent air and adding drag?

I’m not trying to build the “ultimate track aero car,” but when I upgrade something I want it to be meaningful and not just “I spent money for the appearance.” I daily this and want to be competitive at VIR.

Would love to hear what you guys did and why (bonus points for any data/logs/track feedback).

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[Djseto]

@PointByPatrol has a wing on his car and him and I do VIR multiple times a year.

what do you mean “competitive” at VIR? What lap times are you running now? Are you doing HPDE or actual racing/time trials?

Also, the OEM wing makes actual downforce. The number is right around 200lb @ roughly 125mph. It’s not just for looks.

 

[boostedRationalist]

@PointByPatrol has a wing on his car and him and I do VIR multiple times a year.

what do you mean “competitive” at VIR? What lap times are you running now? Are you doing HPDE or actual racing/time trials?

Also, the OEM wing makes actual downforce. The number is right around 200lb @ roughly 125mph. It’s not just for looks.

OEM wing being functional isn’t in dispute — Honda states the redesigned rear spoiler and diffuser “intensify downforce and reduce drag.”

But I can’t find any Honda-published source supporting “~200 lb @ ~125 mph” for the wing itself. That figure seems to get repeated online as total vehicle aero without a primary citation.

My question wasn’t whether the car has aero, it was whether any aftermarket wings besides Spoon / Mugen have published CFD/wind tunnel validation.

If you have a Honda press kit / technical doc showing that number specifically for the wing, please link it.

 

[Djseto]

https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/downforce-lift-aero-drag-figures.52417/

what times are you running at VIR now?

@PointByPatrol has the Adro wing. They once posted (I think on IG) their CFD of their wing but I don’t see it on the product page.

 

[boostedRationalist]

https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/downforce-lift-aero-drag-figures.52417/

what times are you running at VIR now?

@PointByPatrol has the Adro wing. They once posted (I think on IG) their CFD of their wing but I don’t see it on the product page.

Thanks — those images are helpful.

They actually show the “~200 lb @ ~125 mph” figure refers to the overall Type R aero package at 200 km/h, not the wing by itself.

The rear spoiler contribution in the graphic is 580 N, which is about 130 lb at ~124 mph — while total aero items shown sum to 892 N (~200 lb).

That’s exactly why I’m asking about balancing front/rear aero and looking for validated data.

Looking forward to hearing from @PointByPatrol

 

[PointByPatrol]

Thanks — those images are helpful.

They actually show the “~200 lb @ ~125 mph” figure refers to the overall Type R aero package at 200 km/h, not the wing by itself.

The rear spoiler contribution in the graphic is 580 N, which is about 130 lb at ~124 mph — while total aero items shown sum to 892 N (~200 lb).

That’s exactly why I’m asking about balancing front/rear aero and looking for validated data.

Looking forward to hearing from @PointByPatrol

I have a front splitter and the ADRO wing. I can’t find the CFD data that ADRO posted anymore either, but I bought the wing for the looks. The splitter has made a noticeable difference though!

 

[Djseto]

It’s your money but you still haven’t mentioned your lap times at VIR. I’ve done over 1000 miles on the full course and so has @PointByPatrol. Unless you are driving advanced or race, aero is the last thing I’d spend money on for that track on a FL5.

 

[boostedRationalist]

I have a front splitter and the ADRO wing. I can’t find the CFD data that ADRO posted anymore either, but I bought the wing for the looks. The splitter has made a noticeable difference though!

Appreciate the honest answer, that’s exactly the kind of real-world context I’m looking for. Respect for saying you bought the ADRO wing for looks, but still thinking about balance with a splitter. When you say it made a noticeable difference, what did you feel specifically (turn-in, braking stability, high-speed front end)? What splitter are you running and did you change alignment/ride height?

 

[boostedRationalist]

It’s your money but you still haven’t mentioned your lap times at VIR. I’ve done over 1000 miles on the full course and so has @PointByPatrol. Unless you are driving advanced or race, aero is the last thing I’d spend money on for that track on a FL5.

I agree VIR-specific experience matters and get what you’re saying about ROI for VIR — tires/brakes/seat time come first. If aero is truly “last priority” at VIR, that’s useful info — but it still doesn’t answer my question.

I’m not trying to turn this thread into a lap-time credential check. If you’ve run VIR with splitter/wing setups on the FL5, I’d love to hear what worked and what didn’t (stability, turn-in, understeer balance, etc.). That’s directly useful.

Since VIR is the end goal, lap times are absolutely useful as a way to compare setups once changes are made. But they’re not relevant as a prerequisite to ask auestions about aero validation. I’m doing the research so I don’t waste money or upset the car’s high-speed behavior.

 

[TypeRbuilder]

Soooo....my 2 cents on this: The factory rear wing is designed for purpose. The WHOLE car really is from the suspension to the engine and aero.

So when I think about changing the suspension I ask: How will effect what Honda did to make this car as good as it is?

When I want to put a lithium ion battery in, how will losing 35+ lbs up front effect what Honda did to make this car as good as it is.

(although in this case dropping weight from the front to make it more balanced isn't a bad thing, like the TLX: taking 40 lbs from the rear, battery location, made it MORE front heavy. But the car is 'as good as it is' with that weight accounted for)

How will lighter wheels affect How good Honda made this car....and in that case, keeping things even at all corners, WILL most likely help for unsprung weight! Which is where I'm putting my effort right now btw

This one is a bit harder to "make better" aside from power, because: Honda made it as good as it is....

Every thing you do changes everything else they did. Most aftermarket aero is for "looks".....at least IMHO.....

 

[boostedRationalist]

Soooo....my 2 cents on this: The factory rear wing is designed for purpose. The WHOLE car really is from the suspension to the engine and aero.

So when I think about changing the suspension I ask: How will effect what Honda did to make this car as good as it is?

When I want to put a lithium ion battery in, how will losing 35+ lbs up front effect what Honda did to make this car as good as it is.

(although in this case dropping weight from the front to make it more balanced isn't a bad thing, like the TLX: taking 40 lbs from the rear, battery location, made it MORE front heavy. But the car is 'as good as it is' with that weight accounted for)

This one is a bit harder to "make better" aside from power, because: Honda made it as good as it is....

Every thing you do changes everything else they did. Most aftermarket aero is for "looks".....at least IMHO.....

100% agree — the OEM wing/aero is part of a system and it’s easy to make the car worse if you change one piece without understanding balance. That’s actually why I’m doing all this homework before buying anything. I’m not looking to improve Honda’s aero blindly — I’m trying to figure out what aftermarket is genuinely validated.

I keep coming back to the idea that unless a wing is part of a proven package (OEM/Mugen) or has real development transparency (Spoon), most of it probably is aesthetic-first.

 

[TypeRbuilder]

Yeah, the car is only as good as it's weakest link: you can't do intake without doing exhaust, you can't do PART of the exhaust without doing the whole thing....weakest link controls EVERYTHING!

First major mod? Grounds. Then wheels. Then tune/intake/exhaust.....

 

[Djseto]

I agree VIR-specific experience matters and get what you’re saying about ROI for VIR — tires/brakes/seat time come first. If aero is truly “last priority” at VIR, that’s useful info — but it still doesn’t answer my question.

I’m not trying to turn this thread into a lap-time credential check. If you’ve run VIR with splitter/wing setups on the FL5, I’d love to hear what worked and what didn’t (stability, turn-in, understeer balance, etc.). That’s directly useful.

Since VIR is the end goal, lap times are absolutely useful as a way to compare setups once changes are made. But they’re not relevant as a prerequisite to ask questions about aero validation. I’m doing the research so I don’t waste money or upset the car’s high-speed behavior.

Let's get to brass tacks then. Your first post was asking all of this, which I totally understand doing your research, because you "want to be competitive at VIR." You still haven't answered my question on your experience at VIR, which I'm asking so we can help you reach your goal of being "competitive". So until you say otherwise, I'm going to assume you have none.

Competitive at VIR is going to be measured on lap times. Period. End of story. If your desired outcome is to be competitive (aka fast), then aero is not how you get there first. Max out the OEM setup, then add Aero to get that last bit of speed. There were 14 of us at VIR last year for the Type R get together, some had aero, some had mods/tunes, and I was 3rd fastest in a stock setup. @PointByPatrol was 2nd in his modded and tuned (400+HP car), and 1st was another instructor in OEM setup who was running cheap blank rotors (not even 2 pc).

Having logged 1000+ miles there, I can tell you only a few places are going to come into play where aero is going to make any difference: the Upper Esses, NASCAR, and Oak Tree. On the straights, more downforce is going to slow you down and that's where the speeds come into play to make it most effective.

If you've never run VIR, the Upper Esses entry in a FL5 can push 120mph and exit 110-120mph (depends on the size of your balls). Aero would help here, especially at the exit, but entry and exit speeds for someone who's never run that track will not be that high. The factory setup is enough here.

NASCAR (Turn 3) is a wide arc left hander than you can carry 70+mph through, but your turn in point, where you track out, and your tires matter more. Apex this wrong at speed and you're going off track. Oak Tree entry can be fast but exiting and apexing that has to more with your brake and the line you choose, and def your tires. You enter faster with aero, but your time to brake and apex is VERY short.

Most of the turns will not be affected by Aero because you likely need lots of speed and BIG aero for it make any useful downforce. This is where CFD data would be super useful. Turn in, under, and oversteer are going to be more easily influenced by your alignment, tires, and braking style.

To your last point, will adding aero upset the car's behavior? Possibly. If you add downforce at the back, you will need lip up front to balance out lift.

Will you be "wasting money"? Absolutely. But hey, it's YOUR money. You do you. But if your goal is faster laps, until I see CFD data, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

@PointByPatrol am I missing anything here?

 

[TypeRbuilder]

Let's get to brass tax then. Your first post was asking all of this, which I totally understand doing your research, because you "want to be competitive at VIR." You still haven't answered my question on your experience at VIR, which I'm asking so we can help you reach your goal of being "competitive". So until you say otherwise, I'm going to assume you have none.

Competitive at VIR is going to be measured on lap times. Period. End of story. If your desired outcome is to be competitive (aka fast), then aero is not how you get there first. Max out the OEM setup, then add Aero to get that last bit of speed. There were 14 of us at VIR last year for the Type R get together, some had aero, some had mods/tunes, and I was 3rd fastest in a stock setup. @PointByPatrol was 2nd in his modded and tuned (400+HP car), and 1st was another instructor in OEM setup who was running cheap blank rotors (not even 2 pc).

Having logged 1000+ miles there, I can tell you only a few places are going to come into play where aero is going to make any difference: the Upper Esses, NASCAR, and Oak Tree. On the straights, more downforce is going to slow you down and that's where the speeds come into play to make it most effective.

If you've never run VIR, the Upper Esses entry in a FL5 can push 120mph and exit 110-120mph (depends on the size of your balls). Aero would help here, especially at the exit, but entry and exit speeds for someone who's never run that track will not be that high. The factory setup is enough here.

NASCAR (Turn 3) is a wide arc left hander than you can carry 70+mph through, but your turn in point, where you track out, and your tires matter more. Apex this wrong at speed and you're going off track. Oak Tree entry can be fast but exiting and apexing that has to more with your brake and the line you choose, and def your tires. You enter faster with aero, but your time to brake and apex is VERY short.

Most of the turns will not be affected by Aero because you likely need lots of speed and BIG aero for it make any useful downforce. This is where CFD data would be super useful. Turn in, under, and oversteer are going to be more easily influenced by your alignment, tires, and braking style.

To your last point, will adding aero upset the car's behavior? Possibly. If you add downforce at the back, you will need lip up front to balance out lift.

Will you be "wasting money"? Absolutely. But hey, it's YOUR money. You do you. But if your goal is faster laps, until I see CFD data, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

@PointByPatrol am I missing anything here?

 

[PointByPatrol]

Let's get to brass tax then. Your first post was asking all of this, which I totally understand doing your research, because you "want to be competitive at VIR." You still haven't answered my question on your experience at VIR, which I'm asking so we can help you reach your goal of being "competitive". So until you say otherwise, I'm going to assume you have none.

Competitive at VIR is going to be measured on lap times. Period. End of story. If your desired outcome is to be competitive (aka fast), then aero is not how you get there first. Max out the OEM setup, then add Aero to get that last bit of speed. There were 14 of us at VIR last year for the Type R get together, some had aero, some had mods/tunes, and I was 3rd fastest in a stock setup. @PointByPatrol was 2nd in his modded and tuned (400+HP car), and 1st was another instructor in OEM setup who was running cheap blank rotors (not even 2 pc).

Having logged 1000+ miles there, I can tell you only a few places are going to come into play where aero is going to make any difference: the Upper Esses, NASCAR, and Oak Tree. On the straights, more downforce is going to slow you down and that's where the speeds come into play to make it most effective.

If you've never run VIR, the Upper Esses entry in a FL5 can push 120mph and exit 110-120mph (depends on the size of your balls). Aero would help here, especially at the exit, but entry and exit speeds for someone who's never run that track will not be that high. The factory setup is enough here.

NASCAR (Turn 3) is a wide arc left hander than you can carry 70+mph through, but your turn in point, where you track out, and your tires matter more. Apex this wrong at speed and you're going off track. Oak Tree entry can be fast but exiting and apexing that has to more with your brake and the line you choose, and def your tires. You enter faster with aero, but your time to brake and apex is VERY short.

Most of the turns will not be affected by Aero because you likely need lots of speed and BIG aero for it make any useful downforce. This is where CFD data would be super useful. Turn in, under, and oversteer are going to be more easily influenced by your alignment, tires, and braking style.

To your last point, will adding aero upset the car's behavior? Possibly. If you add downforce at the back, you will need lip up front to balance out lift.

Will you be "wasting money"? Absolutely. But hey, it's YOUR money. You do you. But if your goal is faster laps, until I see CFD data, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

@PointByPatrol am I missing anything here?

Yes! I was 1st fastest!

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