Pedal dance or no pedal dance

[EJHonda]

Does your track day offer in-car instruction or are you on your own? What kind of runoff room does Buttonwillow have if you make a mistake and spin/go off track?

I'm a certified track instructor with the BMW Car Club of America. As an instructor, we usually allow students to determine whether they keep traction control on or not, especially if they are more experienced, but if they ask for our input, I usually recommend that some portion of it remain on. As a novice HPDE driver, it's best to keep it on while you learn the handling characteristics of your car. Very often it can save you from a mistake that otherwise might make for a bad day. I've see newer drivers come off track, and when I ask them to give me a self-assessment, they tell me they were rocking it. Meanwhile, while sitting right seat I was watching the dash light up with traction control intervening all during the session, so sometimes you can have difficulty assessing how well you're doing with the nannies in place.

When I'm on track with my CTR, here's what I have for settings:
1) pedal dance to turn off all the VSA stuff.
2) I use 'Individual' mode, where it is all the highest settings for steering, throttle response, but 'Comfort' for damping (rarely am i on a track here in the northeast that is as smooth as glass, and suspension compliance is helpful). I also enable rev matching as it does such a good job, I let it do its thing.
3) I've turned off the auto-braking, lane departure warning, etc. nannies.

I do the pedal dance, but I also understand what I'm giving up, and take responsibility for turning off the safety net, and I usually have a track insurance policy for my events. I've found my CTR very well balanced and haven't really had much issue with the handling dynamics of the car, even with the nannies off. That might change if I had to drive on a wet day/cold day, however, and I'd definitely recommend you keep them on if the track is wet.

Good luck and enjoy your sessions.

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[FL5golfer]

Since you're a novice driver, I would keep the nannies on. This car rotates pretty well into the turns for a FWD car. I would suggest that you set it at +R mode straight up. Main thing is to be familiar with the track and learn the lines!! Watch youtube footage of buttonwillow and review the videos over and over again. Are you going to be at Beginner's day with SDC?

 

[optronix]

I would not do the pedal dance personally. I know a lot of fast people that also don't do the pedal dance. They do long press TC which disables everything but VSA I believe, car still uses brakes to rotate.

Also as far as smoke the rear brakes, yes it does the brakes to rotate but you not going to wear your rear brakes in a few track days, specially as a novice. I am intermediate have have done prob 8 events and pads still fine.

This is pretty shocking honestly... I think it was Savagegeese that reported the rears being toast after 2 sessions but that could be my memory failing... but personally I turn VSA off and have actually only been on track for 2 sessions but probably 70+ autocross runs over 2 years, and my rear brakes are nearly to the metal at 15k miles. I understand that autocross is not nearly as hard on brakes as track events.

Also I realize that the traction control system in the DE5 and FL5 is different but as I understand it the pedal dance nets the same result in both cars...

All this to say, this platform does not like rear brakes. I would never in a million years have thought someone could make it through 8 events with VSA off, let alone leaving it on! This changes the calculus on everything and makes me wonder wtf I'm doing wrong...

 

[MooMoo]

This is pretty shocking honestly... I think it was Savagegeese that reported the rears being toast after 2 sessions but that could be my memory failing... but personally I turn VSA off and have actually only been on track for 2 sessions but probably 70+ autocross runs over 2 years, and my rear brakes are nearly to the metal at 15k miles. I understand that autocross is not nearly as hard on brakes as track events.

Also I realize that the traction control system in the DE5 and FL5 is different but as I understand it the pedal dance nets the same result in both cars...

All this to say, this platform does not like rear brakes. I would never in a million years have thought someone could make it through 8 events with VSA off, let alone leaving it on! This changes the calculus on everything and makes me wonder wtf I'm doing wrong...

I think it all depends on track and driver level. But just like some people have had the car overheat and others haven’t.

 

[PointByPatrol]

I do +R with long press. The only nanny that stays on impacts the front brakes, not the rears. Pedal dance disables everything, and you'll end up spinning tires coming out of every single corner which actually slows you down. You are constantly having to adjust the throttle to keep your traction. It's annoying.

@J1Avs can attest.

 

[iforgettopee]

It's great to see the mix of responses - theres really no consensus

I prefer pedal dance because the stock dampers in R mode are simply too stiff for the bumpy socal tracks IMO

See you there on Saturday!

 

[MooMoo]

It's great to see the mix of responses - theres really no consensus

I prefer pedal dance because the stock dampers in R mode are simply too stiff for the bumpy socal tracks IMO

See you there on Saturday!

ITS module is the answer. It makes +R pretty great

 

[Piibuhh]

Since you're a novice driver, I would keep the nannies on. This car rotates pretty well into the turns for a FWD car. I would suggest that you set it at +R mode straight up. Main thing is to be familiar with the track and learn the lines!! Watch youtube footage of buttonwillow and review the videos over and over again. Are you going to be at Beginner's day with SDC?

No im going with another group called spectre its a smaller group and new org.

 

[iforgettopee]

No im going with another group called spectre its a smaller group and new org.

ahh I thought you were going this weekend for buttonwillow classic with SDC... a few of us will be there.

I will be at buttonwillow circuit next month too - see you there

 

[Piibuhh]

ahh I thought you were going this weekend for buttonwillow classic with SDC... a few of us will be there.

I will be at buttonwillow circuit next month too - see you there
[/QUOTEohh got it. Last i checked sdc is a little more pricey than other groups. Would like to track with them tho.

 

[Xian]

This is pretty shocking honestly... I think it was Savagegeese that reported the rears being toast after 2 sessions but that could be my memory failing... but personally I turn VSA off and have actually only been on track for 2 sessions but probably 70+ autocross runs over 2 years, and my rear brakes are nearly to the metal at 15k miles. I understand that autocross is not nearly as hard on brakes as track events.

Also I realize that the traction control system in the DE5 and FL5 is different but as I understand it the pedal dance nets the same result in both cars...

All this to say, this platform does not like rear brakes. I would never in a million years have thought someone could make it through 8 events with VSA off, let alone leaving it on! This changes the calculus on everything and makes me wonder wtf I'm doing wrong...

FWIW, I’m at 100 runs, ~17,500 miles, plus Targa on the rear brakes and still have a little meat left on them. Most of this has been +R with a long press on TC/SC. ~30 of the Autox runs were either in Sport or +R with a short press on TC/SC (was teaching my 15-16 year old kids how to Autox).

IME, the rears don’t appear to get super hot with a long press. My bet is that they get more use with a short press… and maybe that’s what the Geese were running?

 

[coolnick]

ITS module is the answer. It makes +R pretty great

For real, I run +R on the street all the time with the ITS module on some of the worst midwest streets you can find. I have great backroad alternatives for my commute and most of the time forget to turn it off when I make it back to civilization. Everyone has different levels of tolerance obviously, but that module gets rid of most of the bounce.

 

[StingertimeNC]

It really all comes down to how hard/fast you're driving. I turn off Traction control but leave the rest on. Occasionally I'll feel the rears give a little squeeze and the car turns a bit more, but I'm not driving at 100%, probably more like 90% but the car is still fast. At the end of the day, if you can leave some stability control on I think it's better. I'd rather replace brake pads after 6 or 8 days on the track than wreck the car because I have no stability control. Tracking for me is about fun, not setting records. Getting the car home in one piece is very important. Our cars have a pretty high handling capability before nannies are assisting IMO.

 

[FL5golfer]

It's great to see the mix of responses - theres really no consensus

I prefer pedal dance because the stock dampers in R mode are simply too stiff for the bumpy socal tracks IMO

See you there on Saturday!

I agree. Pedal dance + individual mode with dampers set to comfort. +R mode suspension is too stiff for the track. See you tomorrow!

 

[johnloov]

At Laguna Seca, I've tried every setting. Type R mode Nannies fully on - smokes the brakes - Pedal Dance, spun the car, car doesn't turn as well you are not taking advantage of active torque vectoring - Long press spun the car many times - saw many type R's crash - stories of those leaving in ambulances - And I then I started to use short press traction control and have found it to be the magic middle setting, where I can have fun, performed my fastest lap times, and it saved me a few times, and most recently at COTA in Austin Texas, and yes it was sad to see another Type R, mostly likely with long press, smash into a wall during a session. Short press, I was absolutely ripping it, felt safe, and locked in.

Be safe fellas - you can replace the brake pads - but you can't replace your life

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