🔴💊 Engine Oil Red Pill Thread: Only Post If You Have UOA - Official Honda Civic Type R K20C1 Engine Oil Analysis

[johnloov]

Good to know.

How short are your driving habbits, can you elaborate some averages and upper lower limits.

My car was mostly used for daily 5-10min trips to gym ~20% of the usage and 80% to and at the track.

Fuel dilusion is also from short trips. I take short trips. Need to drive more ?

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[svvitch]

Almost all short trips. I change oil before track weekend. Then daily drive the oil until my next event. In this case it was about 6 weeks. Same short trips prior to changing. So track was first then daily until next change.

I'm not worried about the tiny amount of fuel. That's what the oil is designed to help protect against. It's not from the track. It's from my driving habits and not getting the oil up to temp often enough ?

 

[johnloov]

That's good feedback. Maybe that's one advantage of 0W-20, it gets up to temp faster.

 

[jtlctr]

• Valvoline EP, 5w-30
• 3,744 miles on oil
• 14,490 miles on car
• Street driven only
• Tuned with a downpipe and intake

I guess it thinned out a little, but it looks good otherwise. I was previously running the same oil in 0w-20.

 

[johnloov]

Great data!

Here is the Virgin Oil Sample of the same oil. Looks like it dropped a lot from 10.18 to 8.08! I would for sure try the Valvoline Advanced Ultra Max Life next time, almost the same price, but has esters in the oil.

 

[shijima_ending]

So far just based on data alone - which oil do you guys see is performing the best based? ( lowest ppm aluminum & iron, lowest loss in flashpoint, lowest shearing from virgin oil sample, longest duration holding performance )

Here's what I'm seeing - from best performing :

1) Motul 8100 Series 0W20 + Liquid Moly additive 3ppm Aluminum

2) Motul Power 8100 Series 5w30 5ppm aluminum after 5,000 miles and heavy track use. Here is Eric's car. Heavy track and daily use. This possibly could be the best performing given the duration. He does have dual oil coolers up front.

3) Valvoline Advanced ( seems best bang for buck so far )

4) Honda Ultimate 0W20

5) Mobile 1 ESP 0W30

?


Correct me if incorrect based on data

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum did not make the list? Last it was mentioned it was said to be better than the Honda Ultimate and slightly better than the Valvoline. I'm new to the thread so I'm catching up

 

[johnloov]

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum did not make the list? Last it was mentioned it was said to be better than the Honda Ultimate and slightly better than the Valvoline. I'm new to the thread so I'm catching up

Yes, I've heard good things, but can't remember if we have seen data on it yet on this thread.

 

[shijima_ending]

Yes, I've heard good things, but can't remember if we have seen data on it yet on this thread.

I see. And is the Valvoline in that list 0w20 or 5w30? I agree that 0w30 is the perfect middle ground but it seems quite niche. In ambient temps upwards of 100F, would you still recommend 0w20 for a stock engine?

 

[johnloov]

Not all 5w30s and 0w20's are created equal. There are cases where 0w20's outperform a 5w30. Please check thread from beginning, there are lot of videos also explaining this.

If you want to be safe, just get an API SP certified engine oil 0w20 and chance it every 2000 miles. You are safe. I proved that with heavy track use, and with Honda OEM 0W20 engine oil. Yes there are probably better performing ones, and we will find out.

 

[Ktrw]

I see. And is the Valvoline in that list 0w20 or 5w30? I agree that 0w30 is the perfect middle ground but it seems quite niche. In ambient temps upwards of 100F, would you still recommend 0w20 for a stock engine?

If you're going to run a 0W-20, try to find/choose one that maintains its viscosity well, especially important with 100F ambient. My experience (UOAs) with the factory fill 0W-20 was not good viscosity wise, and Pennzoil Ultra Plantinum did a much better job in a 20 grade. Getting to the end of my first PUP 5W-30 oil change so I'll have results on that next. Only have 5800 miles on my engine though so I might need another oil change to finally get the remaining elevated break in material out down to steady state.

 

[johnloov]

If you're going to run a 0W-20, try to find/choose one that maintains its viscosity well, especially important with 100F ambient. My experience (UOAs) with the factory fill 0W-20 was not good viscosity wise, and Pennzoil Ultra Plantinum did a much better job in a 20 grade. Getting to the end of my first PUP 5W-30 oil change so I'll have results on that next. Only have 5800 miles on my engine though so I might need another oil change to finally get the remaining elevated break in material out down to steady state.

Agreed on POP 0W-20 - it's basically the thickest 0w20 out there - Again change your oil at 2k and it's all good. All oils start to build up contaminants after 2k miles. That's the hard fact.

 

[jtlctr]

If you're going to run a 0W-20, try to find/choose one that maintains its viscosity well, especially important with 100F ambient. My experience (UOAs) with the factory fill 0W-20 was not good viscosity wise, and Pennzoil Ultra Plantinum did a much better job in a 20 grade. Getting to the end of my first PUP 5W-30 oil change so I'll have results on that next. Only have 5800 miles on my engine though so I might need another oil change to finally get the remaining elevated break in material out down to steady state.

I’ll be curious to see the results of the PUP 5w-30. I may try that next if the viscosity remains in spec.

 

[cryptolime]

Agreed on POP 0W-20 - it's basically the thickest 0w20 out there - Again change your oil at 2k and it's all good. All oils start to build up contaminants after 2k miles. That's the hard fact.

Mobil 1 EP (0w20) is the same at 8.8 cSt @ 100 C. PUP 5w-30 is 10.3. not sure it's worth bumping up the viscosity or not.

 

[Ktrw]

I would like to mention that we currently have a great example of a car manufacturer recommending an oil that leaves extremely thin margins of success with the intended operating envelope of a particular vehicle.

The GM L87 engine disaster is something that folks should be considering when thinking about oil change intervals, viscosity, types, etc. 0W-20 is the factory recommended spec, and their band-aid fix is to recommend 0W-40 because at low RPM, high load, the oil film thickness is insufficient for the surface finish of the crank shaft and it touches down on the bearings. 0W-40 allows the crankshaft to not wipe out the bearings in the case of those engines with manufacturing defects.

Obviously, we aren't expecting the K20C engines to have this problem, but the same could be said for those L87 engines prior to this. You need an oil that will have sufficient viscosity in the operating conditions that you use the vehicle in. Having sufficient oil film thickness at low and high rpm with high load is important for real-world use.

 

[johnloov]

I would like to mention that we currently have a great example of a car manufacturer recommending an oil that leaves extremely thin margins of success with the intended operating envelope of a particular vehicle.

The GM L87 engine disaster is something that folks should be considering when thinking about oil change intervals, viscosity, types, etc. 0W-20 is the factory recommended spec, and their band-aid fix is to recommend 0W-40 because at low RPM, high load, the oil film thickness is insufficient for the surface finish of the crank shaft and it touches down on the bearings. 0W-40 allows the crankshaft to not wipe out the bearings in the case of those engines with manufacturing defects.

Obviously, we aren't expecting the K20C engines to have this problem, but the same could be said for those L87 engines prior to this. You need an oil that will have sufficient viscosity in the operating conditions that you use the vehicle in. Having sufficient oil film thickness at low and high rpm with high load is important for real-world use.

I thought the root cause was a serious mechanical flaw according to latest studies of the L87 Engine failures. The oil was not the issue - Right? In general, yes thicker oil may provide better protection - depends on the oil - but as we saw in the previous results - it depends on the formulation - and use case. Let's get precise data. Still in search for the best oil. Keep the data coming.