How far is too far, regarding the FL5 fuel system?

[HondaHoon]

So I have begun the "quest" to build a OEM+ FL5. So many questions and concerns have come up during this journey. But let me preface this by saying that I am the type that enjoys collecting the bulk of the needed parts for a build, and once that part collection has come to a end, proceed to install. However, I have hit a roadblock that at this time, I dont think FL5 owners have a complete solution for. This is of course in regards to the fueling system. My current stock pile of parts include;

1. Kuro+ Turbo
2. Infinity Designs Intake System
3. Infinity Designs Inlet Pipe
4. AWE Touring exhaust
5. Innovatig Downpipe
6. Hondata Canflex
7. Full Race High pressure fuel pump
8. Hondata 1530CC injectors
9. AEM 340 low pressure fuel pump
10. PRL Intercooler piping kit
11. HPT Intercooler (prototype)
12. Hondata FlashPro
13. VTEC Slayer copied/unlocked ECU
14. 18x10 +40 Rays TE-47 Saga - Face 4
15. Origin Fab. Strut tower brace w/titanium hardware
16. Assorted Chasing J's engine bling...lol
17. WOT Perf. Spec Dual O.C. Kit

The parts I have ordered, but still waiting on (Approx. 4 weeks out) are as follows:

1. WOT Perf. Spec MWR Triple Pass Radiator w/ trans cooler

I do not plan to build the engine, and I do not plan to push the car beyond a power level that is not considered safe by my tuner, who I trust.

So, this all boils down to this. After speaking with a very prominent tuner with the FL5 platform, I asked him about a recent build I watched on YouTube. Specifically the owner of that build advised that based on issues with the stock fuel systems hanger design, the fuel filter sock has a tendency to clog while using E85, and other associated problems. The video is here for reference;



So he sourced a modified hanger, custom fuel lines, external fuel filter assembly, etc. He sourced his parts from various vendors, including FK8td. Some of the parts are linked in the description. The tuner I spoke with advised to wait for Radium to release a full system made by Radium that will be similar to what they released for the FK8 shown here;

https://www.radiumauto.com/products/fuel-pump-hanger-2016-honda-civic

He advised me to not only get the hanger kit when available, but the plumbing kit as well. I personally cannot beleive that it takes all this fueling modifications to make reliable OEM+ power on this platform. Especially knowing that there is a ARMY of FL5 owners that are running modified/upgraded turbos with complete factory fueling.

Therefore, I propose the debate and opinions of the mob of Hoonigans to be released upon me. What are your feelings of my build with the current fueling mods already purchased? Do I need a completely redone fueling system like the Radium system linked above to be safe? Should I completely hold off on my build, until the FL5 Radium system is released fir the FL5? Is the Radium system a complete waste of money? And the questions go on and on!

Thanks.

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[Clark_Kent]

There's nothing OEM+ about your modification list and the vision for your build. Based on the information shared, you are building a heavily, or at the very least, well modified street car.

If you're receiving advice and counsel from a very prominent FL5 tuner (there are only like 5 btw), who you trust, why don't you take their word for it?

 

[HondaHoon]

I own a fully built race car. Anything street capable is OEM+ in my mind. Don't get into the semantics of the term, OEM+.

I do trust the tuners opinion. However, I am interested in others as well and figured its a good topic for discussion.

But thanks for yours, if it was in there somewhere.

 

[Mobias]

I run 570whp with a fully upgraded fuel system and don't have anything like that hangar, nor have I had issues using e85. I also run e85 on my s2000 and haven't had any issues there even with a walbro 450 and stock sock.

Is there truth to what the video says, maybe, I honestly don't know. But my personal experience says it's not needed. I'd wager that if I asked DRob, he'd probably say the same.

All that being said, the dude in the video is pushing the limits of what the stock motor can handle and basically just hoping it all works out. Good luck to him but if I was going to try and get over 600hp, I would probably build the motor and do more custom work for the fuel system like he is proposing to support higher levels.

 

[HondaHoon]

Thank you Mobias for your constructive opinion. I appreciate it.

Can't wait to read others.

 

[Mobias]

I no problem. I should also mention, in case your tuner hasn't told you, you most likely won't be able to run e85 and receive full power without mixing gasoline. I know on my current build I start losing power above E50 because the fuel system just can't keep up. This is something I'm waiting on parts to rectify and then retune. Ideally I want to be running straight e85 and having full power available to me.

 

[HondaHoon]

Yes you are correct. Currently, I am not certain how far I can utilize E fuel with the current mods I have collected for installation. I imagine if your setup is the same as mine. I will too find myself limited. Thank you again.

 

[blueroadster]

Quite an impressive list of parts that you have collected and waiting to install. I tend to research individual components, purchase, install and research next steps from there.

What is your overall build intent and goal for the car? I presume that you are looking for a reliable build result since you do not want to modify the stock block. If that is the case, why the focus on running E85 straight?

Considering the parts that you already have in hand, have you considered installing, tuning and determining the next steps to go from there?

 

[HondaHoon]

Goal for the car. To build a FL5 with top tier components that will still give me the feel and fit of OEM but enhance the experience beyond OEM. I am building the car to not push top end power. It is going to be used on circuit for HPDE or free use track events. Also, it will be used on street as well.

I may have used the term E85 too loosely and I apologize for any misunderstanding. I do not know what the limits of E I will end up at, I presume the end result will be around E40-E50. Yes, I want the car to make power, but still within the "reliable" realm of stock internals.

Of course I want to get to installing. However, I try to conduct my research in advance and let my brain and ego to be hindered discovering knowledge to buy the best parts that suits my needs. Rather the car take the abuse. Not to say adding parts one by one is bad. This is how I prefer to start my builds. Of course things will prob change, unless I hit the nail on the head the first time. Like I did with my Audi RS5, I bullt in the same manner.

I think fueling is very critical to any build, and after discovering that the entire factory fuel system is MAY be subpar for a my build. I figured the community would benefit from a thread discussing it with my build listed architecture as the muse.

 

[BuntaTypeR]

If you look at my track build, my car is heavily modded but tuned conservatively, 500 plus whp and 400 plus wtq on E85/E50. I don’t daily it or drag race, it’s a dedicated track car that sees about 6x - 10x events per year.

From my experience running at Buttonwillow, Streets of Willow, and Big Willow, all of which have elevation changes and long sweepers. I’ve never needed a fuel pump hanger. Maybe it becomes necessary if you’re on drag radials or running at a pro level.

However, I’ve seen a pro driver running the Spoon USA FL5 on A052s without that mod, and he had zero issues. In my opinion, it’s overkill for most setups. But hey, it’s your money and your choice.

 

[HondaHoon]

Thank you for your experiences and knowledge regarding the matter. Oh, lol, I never said I was 100% all in to getting it if/when something is released for the FL5. I am enjoying the conversation and opinions of others. I appreciate others insights and knowledge. Hopefully we can attract some tuners and or companies into the conversation as well. It would be great to have their knowledge presented for everyone to read in one place.

 

[jdml3ia]

Goal for the car. To build a FL5 with top tier components that will still give me the feel and fit of OEM but enhance the experience beyond OEM. I am building the car to not push top end power. It is going to be used on circuit for HPDE or free use track events. Also, it will be used on street as well.

My .02 - take it for what it's worth.

I am running E30-E45 with several track days, stock fuel system, no issues. Most of the car is stock. I keep the tank at a minimum of 1/2 with the stock fuel pump for track use. You've surpassed OEM+ with your go-fast parts list IMO. If the goal is track use, I'd start with the most important bits: suspension, tires, brakes, and track time with the R. The best modification is the track time driver mod. Plenty of good information within the Tracking/Autocross/HPDE section. Good luck with the build!

 

[HondaHoon]

Suspension is in the works. Going with a 200TW on my TE37's Sagas. Pads are also in route as well. Cooling mods already purchased from WOT. Got the oil cooler, just waiting on the triple pass radiator, and trans cooler.

I am an experienced track driver with years under my belt in various platforms. But you are correct, no time in the CTR as I just bought it in July and just enjoying it stock on street as I get familiar with it.

Yes, another member dinged me for using OEM+. I should not have used that term in my original post.

Thank you for your .02 cents regarding the fueling as well.

 

[AspecR]

2 Questions:
1). What is your goal for the car? and what is your power goal? Based on the list of mods you've presented OEM+ left the building lol

 

[HondaHoon]

1. My goal is to make my car do everything better than OEM, yet still maintaining or going beyond the fit and feel of OEM. This applies to both on street and track (not drag racing). Having a decent crossover with minimal compromises. I know there always is.

2. My power goal is whatever my tuner determines is safe. I am not really concerned with the numbers per say.

3. For the third time in thread, I have addressed that I stood corrected for my error in using the term OEM+. I own a full track Porsche 911 GTB3 class racecar. So anything streetable that is modded such as this is OEM+ to me and that is what I initially meant. Again I have addressed this in the thread and understand this term is not generally accepted as I perceive it.

Again, the question at hand is in reference to the need for the hanger and plumbing as linked in the original post. We are here as a community to discuss this here.

What type of builds require such a setup for the FK8 that Radium went out of their way to develope and release. There must of been a large need as there would have been no money to be made, right?

This has been great. Thanks to all for the input.

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