Faster with Better Brakes!

[PointByPatrol]

In this video I discuss the benefit of brake upgrades, and how they contribute to improved lap times! I also show how easy it is to swap pads on my AP/Essex brake kit!

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[Bazgab]

Great vid, been loving your content. You have been on the perfect upgrade path IMO (OEM+, Cooling/Reliability, Brakes, and Wheels/Tires). If I had the money right now I would literally be copying all the mods you have been doing. Just have to be patient and I will get there over time.

 

[PointByPatrol]

Great vid, been loving your content. You have been on the perfect upgrade path IMO (OEM+, Cooling/Reliability, Brakes, and Wheels/Tires). If I had the money right now I would literally be copying all the mods you have been doing. Just have to be patient and I will get there over time.

You'll get there! Going to the track this weekend to see if I can improve on my time!

 

[scuderia_miso]

@PointByPatrol do those happen to fit under your stock wheels?

I'm surprised you are going through consumables that quick with this big brake kit. On my S2k which has Stoptech trophy front and rear, brake pads last forever. Like 2-3 seasons with 5-6 track events per year. Rotors last even longer. Granted that car is under 2500 lbs and closer to 50/50 weight distribution. The FL5 being heavier and FWD I guess makes all the difference. Is the track you were running at notoriously hard on brakes? You mentioned the Ferodo pads were used, roughly how much pad was left on them when you swapped them in?

 

[PointByPatrol]

Yes, they fit under the stock rims. The Paragon's lasted roughly 2.5 track days. The ferodo's tend to last 4-5. A big part of the issue is heat evacuation. On the FK8 the ferodo lasted longer because I had removed the heat shielding. The FL5 still has the heat shields. I did experience a Ferodo failure at VIR on one pad in particular, but the other three have about 6-7mm remaining. I plan to disassemble the brake system this weekend and make a video to discuss it. The rotors are also destroyed at this point. Likely because of heat. I had to bleed brakes on Sunday at VIR, and switch to Castrol SRF. The Motul 660 completely fell off. Weight is definitely a factor here, and so is weight balance. The Paragon R5's that I had in the rear are still back there, and have about 5-6mm of pad remaining. The used Ferodo's that I swapped in had about 4-5mm left on them. VIR is hard on brakes in only 2 segments of the track. CMP is hard on the brakes 4 times per lap, and is also extremely short which causes issues with heat dissipation

 

[scuderia_miso]

Super useful info, thanks for all the details. I am looking forward to the video.

This tells me the 355mm FK8 Essex kit is probably not the best option for the FL5 and I will either go with the 380mm Dream kit or the 370mm Paragon kit before track season.

 

[PointByPatrol]

Super useful info, thanks for all the details. I am looking forward to the video.

This tells me the 355mm FK8 Essex kit is probably not the best option for the FL5 and I will either go with the 380mm Dream kit or the 370mm Paragon kit before track season.

I need to make a quick edit on what I said before. The Paragon pads were dead after one weekend at CMP. I replaced them with new R7's when I went to VIR and burned them out in one day. I put a used set of DS312's with 4-5mm remaining on the following day, and made it the whole weekend. AP/Essex suggests removing the backing plates, which I did not do. Henceforth my rotors were reaching 1500 degrees. I have a good bit of pad remaining from this last track weekend where I used a brand new set of DS312's, but one of the pads fractured and fell apart on the last run of the day. The other three still have meat on the bone. (My apologies: I was typing while tired last night)

 

[PointByPatrol]

Super useful info, thanks for all the details. I am looking forward to the video.

This tells me the 355mm FK8 Essex kit is probably not the best option for the FL5 and I will either go with the 380mm Dream kit or the 370mm Paragon kit before track season.

Here's the aftermath!

 

[Aero1900]

Good info, thanks.

I sacrifice lap times to preserve brake life and engine overheating issues. I only point this out so that people who have little to no track time understand that you can track these cars with way less wear than you are experiencing. But obviously they can't even come close to matching your lap times if they do so.

If you just want to take your bone stock Type R out on track you can do it, you just need to be very aware of being easy on the car. That's certainly not what PointbyPatrol is doing here. I just don't want novices here to be afraid to attend a track day because they think they must do expensive upgrades and expect a set of pads to only last a day.

If you want to track your stock car and not kill your brakes you absolutely can. You just have to go into the track day with the mindset of being gentle on the car and forget about lap times.

For example, as you approach a turn/ braking zone at the end of a high speed section, you can simply take your foot off the gas, leave the car in grear and allow the car to slow down a bit ( or a lot) before you get on the brakes. Doing this compared to being full throttle right up until you need to apply max braking to make it thru the turn makes a massive difference in brake temperature and wear.

 

[PointByPatrol]

Good info, thanks.

I sacrifice lap times to preserve brake life and engine overheating issues. I only point this out so that people who have little to no track time understand that you can track these cars with way less wear than you are experiencing. But obviously they can't even come close to matching your lap times if they do so.

If you just want to take your bone stock Type R out on track you can do it, you just need to be very aware of being easy on the car. That's certainly not what PointbyPatrol is doing here. I just don't want novices here to be afraid to attend a track day because they think they must do expensive upgrades and expect a set of pads to only last a day.

If you want to track your stock car and not kill your brakes you absolutely can. You just have to go into the track day with the mindset of being gentle on the car and forget about lap times.

For example, as you approach a turn/ braking zone at the end of a high speed section, you can simply take your foot off the gas, leave the car in grear and allow the car to slow down a bit ( or a lot) before you get on the brakes. Doing this compared to being full throttle right up until you need to apply max braking to make it thru the turn makes a massive difference in brake temperature and wear.

I'm glad you chimed in with this, and these are all EXCELLENT points! I completely agree! The car is trackable in a completely stock format. The "lift and coast" technique that you mentioned is perfectly acceptable for people that are new to the sport, or have just a few track days under their belt. I was the same way when I was new, and worked my way up over time. As I worked my way up the "pain points" of the car became more noticeable, and I upgraded those "pain points" so that I could push past the stalls in performance that I was experiencing.

While I do agree with everything said here, I would still urge newbies to put a more track focused brake pad on their car, and swap out the factory brake fluid for something more robust. Motul RBF600 should be more than enough for a newbie. The factory fluid is fairly easy to boil and nobody that is new out on the track should have to experience the terror of a brake pedal that just drops straight to the floor.

I started with RBF600, and tracked on that until my skill level pushed the fluid to fail. I then moved up to RBF660 and continued on this until it failed. (meaning I was becoming more comfortable with brake later and harder, and trailing the brakes into the turn). I now run Castrol SRF.

 

[Aero1900]

I'm glad you chimed in with this, and these are all EXCELLENT points! I completely agree! The car is trackable in a completely stock format. The "lift and coast" technique that you mentioned is perfectly acceptable for people that are new to the sport, or have just a few track days under their belt. I was the same way when I was new, and worked my way up over time. As I worked my way up the "pain points" of the car became more noticeable, and I upgraded those "pain points" so that I could push past the stalls in performance that I was experiencing.

While I do agree with everything said here, I would still urge newbies to put a more track focused brake pad on their car, and swap out the factory brake fluid for something more robust. Motul RBF600 should be more than enough for a newbie. The factory fluid is fairly easy to boil and nobody that is new out on the track should have to experience the terror of a brake pedal that just drops straight to the floor.

I started with RBF600, and tracked on that until my skill level pushed the fluid to fail. I then moved up to RBF660 and continued on this until it failed. (meaning I was becoming more comfortable with brake later and harder, and trailing the brakes into the turn). I now run Castrol SRF.

I did swap to RBF600 before my first track day with the Type R. It's too cheap and easy not to do.

I haven't pushed or found the limits of that fluid yet. But I will

 

[PointByPatrol]

I did swap to RBF600 before my first track day with the Type R. It's too cheap and easy not to do.

I haven't pushed or found the limits of that fluid yet. But I will

You most certainly will. When I did it wasn't a completely dead pedal, but there was no brake force until halfway down.

 

[Sooner1]

@PointByPatrol thinking of installing the HEL braided brake lines this winter. Was that process pretty straight forward? Any tips or items of note for this?

 

[PointByPatrol]

@PointByPatrol thinking of installing the HEL braided brake lines this winter. Was that process pretty straight forward? Any tips or items of note for this?

It was super straight forward, and pretty easy. The only minor hang up I had was transferring the front brake bypass block bracket over to the new bypass block. It doesn't fit great. You have to start the threads of the bolt first, and then drive it home with a 3/8th's gun. If you can't picture what I mean now then you'll know for sure when you go to install it.

What brake fluid are you going with?

 

[Sooner1]

It was super straight forward, and pretty easy. The only minor hang up I had was transferring the front brake bypass block bracket over to the new bypass block. It doesn't fit great. You have to start the threads of the bolt first, and then drive it home with a 3/8th's gun. If you can't picture what I mean now then you'll know for sure when you go to install it.

What brake fluid are you going with?

Motul RBF 600
I am sure it is listed above in this thread somewhere but what do you use?

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