Civic Type R vs. Porsche 911

[1971Camaro]

No, this isn't a joke. But, i'm not meaning this to be a decision that most people would logically consider. The reason I am posting is because i recently test-drove a new Porsche 911, and having never driven such a vehicle before, my frame of reference was the FL5, since i haven't driven any other performance car in over a decade.

Given my budget, i would never have considered any Porsche. In fact, i had never even visited a Porsche dealership. However, when first looking into the FL5 with the initial insane markups of 15-25k, i saw that it would put me in the ballpark of a 718, Macan, or possibly the Cayenne. That made me stop and think hard.

I wanted the performance, but i also wanted interior and cargo room, Therefore, the FL5 is actually the ideal car for me anyway. So, when i got placed first on the waiting list, i put aside thoughts of a Porsche. That is... until i went to get my first oil change on my FL5. The dealer where i bought my Honda is part of a luxury dealership complex, and the waiting room for service is right next to the Porsche showroom. sigh.

I had to look...which (of course) led to questions...which led to the sales person offering a test drive. I was honest with him about my budget, so i was sure i would be test-driving a used or lower-cost model. When he brought me out to the car waiting to be test-driven, it was a BRAND NEW 911.
wow

So, it was only a single test-drive, but here's the key to what i personally experienced...

The interior quality was better (in my opinion) than the Mercedes i've ridden in. The controls were unique yet intuitive. The seat had incredible fine-control over height, lumbar, and positioning. The shifting was indeed perfection. The handling was truly precise, and the power was awesome.

HOWEVER, i discovered that at this point in my life, the engine wouldn't work out as well for me because the car wasn't as smooth or playful at slower speeds. On the roads where i could get up to higher speeds, it was amazing... but, in normal traffic with slow, erratic speeds, the engine wasn't as responsive...it felt more 'edgy' -- like a little kid being restrained from running. When i got back into my FL5, it confirmed that the FL5 response at lower speeds made it much more fun to drive in congested areas where i am normally driving.

So, not being able to justify one of those incredible machines right now doesn't feel so bad at all -- in fact, it's made me appreciate my FL5 even more!!

On the other hand...my focus is not for tracking unlike a lot of you, and that could make a difference. Plus, the feel of that engine at the higher speeds has left its mark. I wonder now if i would "settle" for one of the other models if i were to be ready to consider a Porsche in the future.

One question -- for those of you who would know about this...
Was that typical to be able to test drive a new Porsche/new 911? Do they usually have a car like that available, or did i somehow luck out?

Sponsored

 

[mbaapk]

A cayanne ? or cayman?

 

[Tickle]

Clicked because of the title...

Man oh man is that a long post. Good luck with whatever content is in it.

 

[1971Camaro]

A cayanne ? or cayman?

sorry to be such a low-life for you, but for my needs and budget, it was going to possibly be the Cayenne.

maybe you thought i made a mistake. yah, i needed room and i wanted a car by a manufacturer i could trust that knew how to make cars.

sorry. i misunderstood. you were probably joking. my bad.

I was trying to do at least 4 things at once (was working today) and reading the forum in-between... obviously, not doing a good job of that at all. I am honestly sorry. I hope you will accept my apology.

 

[1971Camaro]

Clicked because of the title...

Man oh man is that a long post. Good luck with whatever content is in it.

I thought it would help those who haven't had the privilege of driving a 911.
A question i asked, which you might be able to answer...

for those of you who would know about this...
Was that typical to be able to test drive a new Porsche/new 911? Do they usually have a car like that available, or did i somehow luck out?

 

[CTR]

Was that typical to be able to test drive a new Porsche/new 911? Do they usually have a car like that available, or did i somehow luck out?

Not sure but I imagine interest rates are impacting even Porsche sales. Maybe they saw you roll in with the FL5 and figured it was worth a shot. Not everyone who buys a Porsche has money. I would imagine that many are at least partially financed and 7-8% interest is definitely having an impact on cars at this price point.

 

[Jester04]

I thought it would help those who haven't had the privilege of driving a 911.
A question i asked, which you might be able to answer...

for those of you who would know about this...
Was that typical to be able to test drive a new Porsche/new 911? Do they usually have a car like that available, or did i somehow luck out?

Well it really depends, I went to a porsche dealership and got help immediately when I walked in. But when I was in the lot it was tumble weeds and they could not care less to approach me. But service was good once inside. Did not test drive a 911 but did test the Macan S.

 

[TypeRD]

A cayanne ? or cayman?

@1971Camaro I think he’s laughing because they’re totally opposite vehicles. When I read it, I thought it was funny too. But I think I understand where you’re coming from. A Cayman would’ve been within budget despite nearly zero practicality. Maybe you were thinking about hitching a small trailer to it to make it more practical (like a Cayenne)? We don’t know.?

Unfortunately I’ve never driven a Porsche. That’s awesome they let you try out a brand new 911. I bet pulling up in the FL5 had something to do with that. Makes me want to see if a Porsche dealership would let me take a 911 out for a spin.

 

[Type Gts R]

Lucky enough to have both in my garage. Fl5 is a fun 4 door fwd and very difffent driving dynamics when compared to a 911. My 911 is a 991.2 Gts tuned. I do agree that the 911s turbos doesn’t stretch its legs til about 4000 rpm but pulls very hard to redline where as the Fl5s turbo spools very early on making it more fun around town but loses steam up top. Both are incredibly fun to drive on B roads regardless. I owned a 991.2 C4S also with the smaller turbos and those spooled more akin to the type R and was also a blast around town.

 

[Noize]

I’d happily take a little lag for that top end power. Even a base Carrera is touching high 11s, and drives like a dream.

The bit that stops me from getting a 911 over an FL5 is that over twice the price thing. ?

A Cayman is not practical enough. The Macan and Cayenne are of no interest to me.

 

[VarmintCong]

It’s easier to provide you with a new 911 than a used one. A lot of salesmen like going on test drives so no reason to turn you away.

I’ve only been denied once asking for a test drive, that was for a 6mT Nissan Maxima. They said it was too special for test drives. I laughed and walked out.

 

[optronix]

I've had at this point 7 Porsches in my history, and I'm sure that number will continue to grow. Still have one in the garage (23 Macan GTS), but it's the wife's- and call it "elitist" or whatever you want, but Porsche SUVs are not in the same category as Porsche sports cars. Not even my fantastic Macan GTS, which is the best SUV (arguably sports sedan) on the planet. If you only count sports cars, I've had 4; a 991.2 C2S, a 981 GTS, and a pair of 718 GTSs (one 2.5, one 4.0).

I don't know what's going on with individual dealerships but really it just comes down to inventory. Sometimes salespeople get bored, and many of them are car guys like us. Not hard to imagine if there's a car on the lot and a bored salesperson, you'll get a test drive. It's not 2020 anymore. The FL5 maybe had a little to do with it, knowing that the margin would probably be pretty high on a trade... but other than that and the sales guy knowing you're an enthusiast it's not like it's a sign you're in the target demographic. A new 911 (had to be at least an S too because it was a manual...) is literally 3x the cost of an FL5, even with markup. Same as someone rolling up with a 2010 Accord to a Honda dealer asking to drive an FL5...

I personally don't agree that there's any sort of "slow engine response" or however you're describing it- my guess is that you either drove a car without Sport Chrono, or didn't have it in Sport or Sport+. There is a clear and distinct difference in throttle response between the modes, and Porsche infamously gates the ability to even select drive modes behind a ~$1200 option called Sport Chrono (you'll know if it had a small dial on the lower right quadrant of the steering wheel). I had a 991.2 Carrera S so it was still a turbo 911, and that car was definitely more responsive at any speed than my DE5. If the car you drove happened to have rear axle steering, that's just the cherry on top...

The 911 is a higher tier sports car, simple as that. It will do EVERYTHING better than a Type R. Some people try to criticize the 992 (the one you drove) for being more "grand tourer" than "sports car", but that is a fallacy IMO, and mostly about the dimensions of the car growing generation over generation but the differences are actually negligible (1 inch overall... weight effectively the same) and that just doesn't hold water to me. But as I mentioned, it costs 3x as much.

Where I will concede to the FL5/DE5, is that Honda has managed to capture about 95% of the fun to drive factor at normal speeds, even compared to "benchmark" cars like the 911. So you're not imagining things. You just didn't get enough of a sample size on your test drive on normal public roads to differentiate why someone would spend 3x an FL5 on a 911... but ultimately depending on what you want out of a car and how much disposable income you have, the FL5 is the better option for the vast majority of people simply BECAUSE it's 1/3 the cost of a new 911...

But you still haven't driven a 718. FWIW, the Cayman and Boxster are both 718s; one is a hardtop and the other is a convertible. The mid-engine cars with smaller dimensions are arguably better sports cars than the rear-engine cars- that debate will rage eternally on Porsche forums throughout the world- but I highly doubt you'd come away with the same thoughts after driving a 718. There isn't a better driving experience sub-100k, that is basically objective fact. But price-wise, the 4 cylinder 718s are more comparable to the FL5, but as others have mentioned, they're on another tier when it comes to practicality. The 718s are very practical for what they are (they have two trunks, one being actually quite large)- but if you have a large dog or kids they're useless.

 

[mbaapk]

I've had at this point 7 Porsches in my history, and I'm sure that number will continue to grow. Still have one in the garage (23 Macan GTS), but it's the wife's- and call it "elitist" or whatever you want, but Porsche SUVs are not in the same category as Porsche sports cars. Not even my fantastic Macan GTS, which is the best SUV (arguably sports sedan) on the planet. If you only count sports cars, I've had 4; a 991.2 C2S, a 981 GTS, and a pair of 718 GTSs (one 2.5, one 4.0).

I don't know what's going on with individual dealerships but really it just comes down to inventory. Sometimes salespeople get bored, and many of them are car guys like us. Not hard to imagine if there's a car on the lot and a bored salesperson, you'll get a test drive. It's not 2020 anymore. The FL5 maybe had a little to do with it, knowing that the margin would probably be pretty high on a trade... but other than that and the sales guy knowing you're an enthusiast it's not like it's a sign you're in the target demographic. A new 911 (had to be at least an S too because it was a manual...) is literally 3x the cost of an FL5, even with markup. Same as someone rolling up with a 2010 Accord to a Honda dealer asking to drive an FL5...

I personally don't agree that there's any sort of "slow engine response" or however you're describing it- my guess is that you either drove a car without Sport Chrono, or didn't have it in Sport or Sport+. There is a clear and distinct difference in throttle response between the modes, and Porsche infamously gates the ability to even select drive modes behind a ~$1200 option called Sport Chrono (you'll know if it had a small dial on the lower right quadrant of the steering wheel). I had a 991.2 Carrera S so it was still a turbo 911, and that car was definitely more responsive at any speed than my DE5. If the car you drove happened to have rear axle steering, that's just the cherry on top...

The 911 is a higher tier sports car, simple as that. It will do EVERYTHING better than a Type R. Some people try to criticize the 992 (the one you drove) for being more "grand tourer" than "sports car", but that is a fallacy IMO, and mostly about the dimensions of the car growing generation over generation but the differences are actually negligible (1 inch overall... weight effectively the same) and that just doesn't hold water to me. But as I mentioned, it costs 3x as much.

Where I will concede to the FL5/DE5, is that Honda has managed to capture about 95% of the fun to drive factor at normal speeds, even compared to "benchmark" cars like the 911. So you're not imagining things. You just didn't get enough of a sample size on your test drive on normal public roads to differentiate why someone would spend 3x an FL5 on a 911... but ultimately depending on what you want out of a car and how much disposable income you have, the FL5 is the better option for the vast majority of people simply BECAUSE it's 1/3 the cost of a new 911...

But you still haven't driven a 718. FWIW, the Cayman and Boxster are both 718s; one is a hardtop and the other is a convertible. The mid-engine cars with smaller dimensions are arguably better sports cars than the rear-engine cars- that debate will rage eternally on Porsche forums throughout the world- but I highly doubt you'd come away with the same thoughts after driving a 718. There isn't a better driving experience sub-100k, that is basically objective fact. But price-wise, the 4 cylinder 718s are more comparable to the FL5, but as others have mentioned, they're on another tier when it comes to practicality. The 718s are very practical for what they are (they have two trunks, one being actually quite large)- but if you have a large dog or kids they're useless.

Practicality was exactly my hang up on the 718 boxter / cayman. Wanted it so bad but couldn’t justify it with two kids starting high school in the next few years. If Im blessed enough my next car decision will be a Type R LE or a 718 boxter s.

 

[optronix]

Practicality was exactly my hang up on the 718 boxter / cayman. Wanted it so bad but couldn’t justify it with two kids starting high school in the next few years. If Im blessed enough my next car decision will be a Type R LE or a 718 boxter s.

Don't even bother until they get out of college unless you have enough disposable income for the 718 to be a 3rd car. I was almost successful but eventually the costs of paying for both of their cars AND tuition caught up to me... even still, I probably would have kept the 718 if I didn't have a dog I need to take places.

Completely irrelevant and unexciting story, but my original plan was to use one of the other 4 CARS I'M PAYING FOR to shuttle the dog around, but- I didn't want to put him in the Macan for him to tear it up, and my kids' cars were never available because they were, you know, using them.

Kids just keep getting more expensive... but I should be able to afford a GT3 or Artura pretty comfortably when they're done.

Assuming of course the college was actually worth the cost and they can pay for their own things at that point...

 

[mbaapk]

Don't even bother until they get out of college unless you have enough disposable income for the 718 to be a 3rd car. I was almost successful but eventually the costs of paying for both of their cars AND tuition caught up to me... even still, I probably would have kept the 718 if I didn't have a dog I need to take places.

Completely irrelevant and unexciting story, but my original plan was to use one of the other 4 CARS I'M PAYING FOR to shuttle the dog around, but- I didn't want to put him in the Macan for him to tear it up, and my kids' cars were never available because they were, you know, using them.

Kids just keep getting more expensive... but I should be able to afford a GT3 or Artura pretty comfortably when they're done.

Assuming of course the college was actually worth the cost and they can pay for their own things at that point...

Yeah, I plan to help with college, we’ll have to see how the next 3 years or so go. It will be local state college or trade school so that shouldn’t be as bad. The car fix is a plan on the shelf that if it works will work and if not maybe a few years after that it will. I might have to divest a car but we’ll see how it plays out. Im definitely more than mindful of the complete picture and have other priorities more urgent than another car. Im happy with what I have and we’ll see what the future holds.