Fl5 BBK options

[Djseto]

If you think you havent found the need yet for 200tw then you definitely dont need a BBK. 200tw tires will be the largest gain in performance (all around including braking) than any brake kit in the world if you pair it with a summer oriented street tire like PS4S. You've probably pushed the limits of the tire, not the brakes, but you may have perceived it as brake limitations. Like I said, braking is very tire limited.

This is also the reason track folks first mods/upgrades include track focused tires (200tw or super 200 like AD09, A052, RE-71RS, RT660, vitour p1, nankang CRSV2, Cup2R etc) , pads, lines and fluid, alignment and not straight to a BBK.

PS4S is a horrible tire (a little tongue in cheek but still) relative to a good 200tw tire. Its insane the delta in performance.

Spend your money on good 200tw tires, and your usual upgrades to the stock system, not a BBK. Speaking on personal experience tracking/HPDE and guiding customers through the years.

This is the right answer. If you’re running ps4, you haven’t found the limit of the stock system at all. I can run 30 min sessions all day at VIR on the OEM system with SRF, Carbotech XP20/XP10 pads, and v730 200TW and have zero issues. Slowing down from 138mph isn’t a problem and having more HP doesn’t matter if you care about actual braking distance. I am also a very late and aggressive braker. I did just upgrade to 2pc girodisc over the weekend and will be back at VIR in two weeks.

your money, your decision but blowing 2-5k on BBK depending which way you go is a waste at this point. If you want to stop shorter and have better braking performance, you need OEM + pads, tires, and fluid.

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[svvitch]

Just get the ap. They're better. Post some pics

 

[Tougefl5]

The only reason you don't need any of the parts on your build thread is because youre continuing to be let down by sub par tires. So much money and time and research when literally the very reason 200tw tires exist is your use case.

Basketball player 1: what shoes should I wear?
Player 2: basketball shoes
Player 3: basketball shoes
Player 4: basketball shoes
Player 5: basketball shoes
Player 6: basketball shoes

Player 1: ok hiking boots just in case.

At this point get the ap youve spent the money on so much other stuff is there even a discussion? Ap or nothing man. Just get the ap. Ap. Ap. Ap. Why is this even a discussion lol.

I was talking with mike b aka gridzilla he has experience with both brands. In his opinion Ap didn't justify the performance to cost ratio over paragon. All the modifications were chosen for a specific reason. I'm getting different suspension because the car is going into a bit of a different direction then when I decided to go with my kwv3.

 

[Tougefl5]

This is the right answer. If you’re running ps4, you haven’t found the limit of the stock system at all. I can run 30 min sessions all day at VIR on the OEM system with SRF, Carbotech XP20/XP10 pads, and v730 200TW and have zero issues. Slowing down from 138mph isn’t a problem and having more HP doesn’t matter if you care about actual braking distance. I am also a very late and aggressive braker. I did just upgrade to 2pc girodisc over the weekend and will be back at VIR in two weeks.

your money, your decision but blowing 2-5k on BBK depending which way you go is a waste at this point. If you want to stop shorter and have better braking performance, you need OEM + pads, tires, and fluid.

The stopping distance isn't really the issue. More so the consistency. For example on the Cherohala Skyway when the car was stock. The consistency is fine. 400+ the consistency in the last 1/4 isn't the same. The kinetic energy from the acceleration plays a big factor. As post #1 states thought was given to just pads and rotors. However doesn't really make sense given the price isn't that far off from just doing a bbk.

 

[Djseto]

The stopping distance isn't really the issue. More so the consistency. For example on the Cherohala Skyway when the car was stock. The consistency is fine. 400+ the consistency in the last 1/4 isn't the same. The kinetic energy from the acceleration plays a big factor. As post #1 states thought was given to just pads and rotors. However doesn't really make sense given the price isn't that far off from just doing a bbk.

The skyway is my favorite road. More than the dragon. I would not price out OEM rotors. For the same price you can get Girodisc which have better cooling and little less mass. If the cost isn’t that far off then it sounds like Paragon is your option. The price of AP def ain’t close to pads and rotors.

I don’t know how fast you go down the skyway but I’ve run it both directions in my FD RX7 on the OEM system with 1pc blanks with hawk HPS+ pads and SRF and have yet to cook them. My FD is not stock.

 

[Djseto]

The stopping distance isn't really the issue. More so the consistency.

what are you defining as consistency? What are the brakes doing/not doing?

if they don’t feel good and you think you’re maxing out the OEM system, it’s likely because you are on the brakes longer/harder to stop because they aren’t stopping you fast enough because you’re at their limits. If you can stop from the same speed in 7 seconds(and in less distance) on a 200TW vs 10-12 seconds on a Ps4, that time you’re saving the putting heat into the oem system. The risk of a BBK and better pad on pS4 is your going to hit ABS/lockup. In a panic situation, tires keep you from going off the mountain more than a BBK.

 

[Tougefl5]

The skyway is my favorite road. More than the dragon. I would not price out OEM rotors. For the same price you can get Girodisc which have better cooling and little less mass. If the cost isn’t that far off then it sounds like Paragon is your option. The price of AP def ain’t close to pads and rotors.

I don’t know how fast you go down the skyway but I’ve run it both directions in my FD RX7 on the OEM system with 1pc blanks with hawk HPS+ pads and SRF and have yet to cook them. My FD is not stock.

Yes a lot of factors come into play on those roads. They can be as demanding on your car as you want them to be. One thing you don't want is inconsistent brakes. I've never "cooked " them however I don't really like having to adjust the way I drive because of the way my brakes are acting.

 

[Djseto]

Yes a lot of factors come into play on those roads. They can be as demanding on your car as you want them to be. One thing you don't want is inconsistent brakes. I've never "cooked " them however I don't really like having to adjust the way I drive because of the way my brakes are acting.

How are they acting? Are they soft? Are you going pedal to the floor? Also, you said you’re going to fully cage your car so are you planning to wear a full face helmet on the street or is this becoming a track car?

 

[Tougefl5]

How are they acting? Are they soft? Are you going pedal to the floor? Also, you said you’re going to fully cage your car so are you planning to wear a full face helmet on the street or is this becoming a track car?

Depending on how far I take gutting and cage will dictate if I take it off the street.
I definitely get fade and that's what I'm trying to correct. So when I priced pads, rotors, lines, shims and fluid to use with brembos the price doesn't really make sense. So If I did those and bought new tires and wheels what do you think it would cost lol

 

[MooMoo]

Would cost you a better an safer laptime.

 

[Tougefl5]

Hold up so so y'all " just get 200tw and pads" will magically take care of everything guys. Are you telling me that you keep those tires on year round? What happens when the temperature drops in fall and winter. Post your cold weather 200tw wheel and tires setup please.

 

[MooMoo]

You also not driving ps4s on cold temps smartass

 

[ctechauto]

Hold up so so y'all " just get 200tw and pads" will magically take care of everything guys. Are you telling me that you keep those tires on year round? What happens when the temperature drops in fall and winter. Post your cold weather 200tw wheel and tires setup please.

Ok now the conversation has went back to the initial recommendations I (and others now) have mentioned so I'm jumping back in.

200tw do not magically turn to stone when the temperature drops. It just takes a bit longer to get them up to temp to get max grip again. Anything above 35-40⁰ ambient is totally fine (and must be stored above 20-25⁰ to maintain the rubber compound properties), as long as you take time to put temp into them. This is actually true of any summer tire including a PS4S, the 200tw is just more sensitive to it.

A PS4S in 35⁰ weather and "snow on the mountain" as you put it isnt even the right choice either. That is why winter tires and snow tires exist. Also why are you trying to drive at the limit in those conditions? At that point neither 200tw or PS4S is the right choice, it would be a set of snows.

 

[PointByPatrol]

I'd caution against better brake pads or a bbk without upgrading the tires. PS4's are very easy to out-brake and also heat soak quickly. Just want you to stay safe out there. Call me crazy, but I daily drive on 200's.

 

[Djseto]

Depending on how far I take gutting and cage will dictate if I take it off the street.
I definitely get fade and that's what I'm trying to correct. So when I priced pads, rotors, lines, shims and fluid to use with brembos the price doesn't really make sense. So If I did those and bought new tires and wheels what do you think it would cost lol

From what I remember reading the Paragon brake design is the old AP brake design, its a copy as their patent expired, AP now has a new design.

Paragon calipers I have heard are Alcon but also heard that its not so not sure. I bet they are fine but AP will be superior as its a new design that is improved.

I think the brembos are fine for 99% of the people, get some good pads, SRF and you are good to go, they will handle your mountain drives fine

Paragon told me that their caliper is not made by Alcon. Also, the Alcons require your to remove the caliper to remove the brake pad. 100% disqualifier for me.

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