Fl5 BBK options

[Tougefl5]

Once again I'm about to probably buy more stuff I probably don't need. It's time for new pads both front and rear. So I priced out oem was 560.00 plus tax and paragon p3 400.00 excluding tax.
I'd be doing fluid as well roughly 160.00 give or take SRF I'm not doing install because I've go no tools where my car is located. However I have a good deal going with the world’s best Honda tech lol
So I'm running numbers in my head that's about 1k
I was planning on doing a bbk at some point. The usual suspects paragon and AP are really the only brands I've looked into. I know AP fits my wheels and they can be rebuilt. Essex facility is just a few hours away from me.
Don't really know much about paragon although I think they’re Japanese brand winmax.
So my first world delima is should I drop the coin on probably the best bbk by consensus go middle of the road or stick with oem +upgrade system.
I haven't tracked the car yet however very hard touge session. So help me decide this.

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[AspecR]

Once again I'm about to probably buy more stuff I probably don't need. It's time for new pads both front and rear. So I priced out oem was 560.00 plus tax and paragon p3 400.00 excluding tax.
I'd be doing fluid as well roughly 160.00 give or take SRF I'm not doing install because I've go no tools where my car is located. However I have a good deal going with the world’s best Honda tech lol
So I'm running numbers in my head that's about 1k
I was planning on doing a bbk at some point. The usual suspects paragon and AP are really the only brands I've looked into. I know AP fits my wheels and they can be rebuilt. Essex facility is just a few hours away from me.
Don't really know much about paragon although I think they’re Japanese brand winmax.
So my first world delima is should I drop the coin on probably the best bbk by consensus go middle of the road or stick with oem +upgrade system.
I haven't tracked the car yet however very hard touge session. So help me decide this.

Paragon brakes are made by Alcon in the UK but the brake pads are Winmax from Japan. Most would say a brake pad and fluid upgrade will be enough to handle a car that isn't track regularly. There's also the usual Brembo upgrade, Endless is a great high-end JDM option. A cost effective option is the Upgraded caliper from Ballade Sports. That works with the stock rotor but you get a much larger brake pad.

https://balladesports.com/products/...aliper-kit-fk2-fk8-fl5?variant=45823713378563

 

[Tougefl5]

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Paragon brakes are made by Alcon in the UK but the brake pads are Winmax from Japan. Most would say a brake pad and fluid upgrade will be enough to handle a car that isn't track regularly. There's also the usual Brembo upgrade, Endless is a great high-end JDM option. A cost effective option is the Upgraded caliper from Ballade Sports. That works with the stock rotor but you get a much larger brake pad.

https://balladesports.com/products/...aliper-kit-fk2-fk8-fl5?variant=45823713378563

I had Alcon on my evo and they were good. I was only going straight though and the shoot did most of the work. I believe I will keep my FL5 and eventually gut and cage it. Touge is just as demanding on brakes especially down hil. 3k lb car is a task on oem brembo especially when you are making some power. There's actually a touge series that started with drift Appalachia this year. I wouldn't mind trying some hil climbs with the car.

 

[MooMoo]

From what I remember reading the Paragon brake design is the old AP brake design, its a copy as their patent expired, AP now has a new design.

Paragon calipers I have heard are Alcon but also heard that its not so not sure. I bet they are fine but AP will be superior as its a new design that is improved.

I think the brembos are fine for 99% of the people, get some good pads, SRF and you are good to go, they will handle your mountain drives fine

 

[scuderia_miso]

I am running the Paragon 370mm big brake kit and it works great on the street and the track. It's good enough for the Global Time Attack FWD Enthusiast class record at the Ridge Motorsports Park!

Paragon has cheaper consumables compared to AP and they have really good customer service.

If you have questions about their kits just email them, they will get back to you super quick.

They have wheel clearance templates and a list of wheels that have been confirmed to fit on their website.

 

[Tougefl5]

I am running the Paragon 370mm big brake kit and it works great on the street and the track. It's good enough for the Global Time Attack FWD Enthusiast class record at the Ridge Motorsports Park!

Paragon has cheaper consumables compared to AP and they have really good customer service.

If you have questions about their kits just email them, they will get back to you super quick.

They have wheel clearance templates and a list of wheels that have been confirmed to fit on their website.

I haven't really seen any bad reviews on the brand. People seem to really like them and I believe they make rear rotors as well. I do like symmetry when adding parts.

 

[nttran98]

Per savageese, Essex AP racing Radical https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicle/2025/Acura/Integra/Type S probably is the best one

 

[Tougefl5]

Still undecided however I can definitely say Alcon has top notch customer service Essex is OK. Going to check out endless but that's a long shot because I definitely want to be able to have them serviced if needed. Alcon and AP can do it in house in the states.

 

[AspecR]

Still undecided however I can definitely say Alcon has top notch customer service Essex is OK. Going to check out endless but that's a long shot because I definitely want to be able to have them serviced if needed. Alcon and AP can do it in house in the states.

I'd avoid Endless unless you absolutely have to have a JDM BBK. Like you said Alcon and AP can be serviced locally.

 

[Tougefl5]

I'd avoid Endless unless you absolutely have to have a JDM BBK. Like you said Alcon and AP can be serviced locally.

Just checking all the boxes before I make a poor financial decision. That way it's easier to justify lol

 

[azev]

AP racing by essex is probably one of the top of the line brake kit you can get, but you gotta pay big bucks for it. When looking for BBK especially if you track your car alot, I usually always look for a kit that does not uses dust boots on the pistons because the boots always failed. I tried various aftermarket high temp boots but they still tear after a few track day at most. Another important criteria is that the manufacture have to sell parts to rebuilt the caliper, and reasonable cost for ring replacement. I decided to go with Paragon BBK because it meets all my criteria.

 

[Tougefl5]

AP racing by essex is probably one of the top of the line brake kit you can get, but you gotta pay big bucks for it. When looking for BBK especially if you track your car alot, I usually always look for a kit that does not uses dust boots on the pistons because the boots always failed. I tried various aftermarket high temp boots but they still tear after a few track day at most. Another important criteria is that the manufacture have to sell parts to rebuilt the caliper, and reasonable cost for ring replacement. I decided to go with Paragon BBK because it meets all my criteria.

With current pricing AP is 3x the cost of paragon kit. If Ap is 3x superior in quality, performance and benefits I'd purchase it. So I'm just trying to weigh the pro/con of the upgrade.

 

[ctechauto]

Couple of questions here. Are the stock brakes for you the bottleneck? Typically aftermarket BBK arent needed unless you are absolutely overwhelming the stock Brembos with things like tons of power + aero + slicks + needing different brake biasing, overheating them even after getting sufficient cooling to them etc. this would be a completely different story if our cars came with a 2 piston sliding caliper like a lower trim level Civic (or any other car really)

Remember that braking distance is effectively mostly tire limited, more-so than the brakes themselves, and unless you are overheating them, the bigger the caliper and rotor, isnt always better and doesnt mean you'll stop better. And if you're overheating them, there could be other factors at play here before going BBK such as tracks with multiple super long straights where you need to go 150mph to 60mph multiple times in succession. Rotors (and to an extent the calipers) are for shedding heat, the pad and tires do most of the braking work. Surface area of the pistons also make a difference but not always night and day or worth the $. Even considering wheels that have bead knurling to help alleviate tire shift can have an affect on braking, before necessarily going BBK.

Having an aggressive pad (e.g. Ferodo DS3.12) on super 200tw or slicks + slotted 2pc rotors (we already have 2pc rotors stock, but lighter for less rotational mass with internal direction vaines for cooling) like Girodisc or Paragon + good fluid will get you all the bite and longevity you need for 99% of people. Iron is iron.

Now, if you're doing it because aesthetics and cool/bling factor, totally different, but legitimate reasoning.

 

[Tougefl5]

Couple of questions here. Are the stock brakes for you the bottleneck? Typically aftermarket BBK arent needed unless you are absolutely overwhelming the stock Brembos with things like tons of power + aero + slicks + needing different brake biasing, overheating them even after getting sufficient cooling to them etc. this would be a completely different story if our cars came with a 2 piston sliding caliper like a lower trim level Civic (or any other car really)

Remember that braking distance is effectively mostly tire limited, more-so than the brakes themselves, and unless you are overheating them, the bigger the caliper and rotor, isnt always better and doesnt mean you'll stop better. And if you're overheating them, there could be other factors at play here before going BBK such as tracks with multiple super long straights where you need to go 150mph to 60mph multiple times in succession. Rotors (and to an extent the calipers) are for shedding heat, the pad and tires do most of the braking work. Surface area of the pistons also make a difference but not always night and day or worth the $. Even considering wheels that have bead knurling to help alleviate tire shift can have an affect on braking, before necessarily going BBK.

Having an aggressive pad (e.g. Ferodo DS3.12) on super 200tw or slicks + slotted 2pc rotors (we already have 2pc rotors stock, but lighter for less rotational mass with internal direction vaines for cooling) like Girodisc or Paragon + good fluid will get you all the bite and longevity you need for 99% of people. Iron is iron.

Now, if you're doing it because aesthetics and cool/bling factor, totally different, but legitimate reasoning.

The car is making over 450 and could possibly bump the power up if inclined. I roll on regamaster that are nerld wrapped in ps4s. I haven't really found a need for 200tw yet. I've definitely pushed the limits of oem brembos in the mountains. I've considered upgrading rotors, pads,lines, fluid and the cost of doing so ain't much more than just buying the Paragon kit. So really the crux of it is I'm trying to make a choice between the two.

 

[ctechauto]

The car is making over 450 and could possibly bump the power up if inclined. I roll on regamaster that are nerld wrapped in ps4s. I haven't really found a need for 200tw yet. I've definitely pushed the limits of oem brembos in the mountains. I've considered upgrading rotors, pads,lines, fluid and the cost of doing so ain't much more than just buying the Paragon kit. So really the crux of it is I'm trying to make a choice between the two.

If you think you havent found the need yet for 200tw then you definitely dont need a BBK. 200tw tires will be the largest gain in performance (all around including braking) than any brake kit in the world if you pair it with a summer oriented street tire like PS4S. You've probably pushed the limits of the tire, not the brakes, but you may have perceived it as brake limitations. Like I said, braking is very tire limited.

This is also the reason track folks first mods/upgrades include track focused tires (200tw or super 200 like AD09, A052, RE-71RS, RT660, vitour p1, nankang CRSV2, Cup2R etc) , pads, lines and fluid, alignment and not straight to a BBK.

PS4S is a horrible tire (a little tongue in cheek but still) relative to a good 200tw tire. Its insane the delta in performance.

Spend your money on good 200tw tires, and your usual upgrades to the stock system, not a BBK. Speaking on personal experience tracking/HPDE and guiding customers through the years.

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