Random first-day impressions...

[TypeRD]

@VLJ The 2 primary spots for rattles are :

1. The infotainment screen. This isn’t too difficult to take apart and mount some felt or other material in areas to stop the rattles/buzzes.

2. The rear view mirror housing. Again, not difficult to mess with and often the rattles/buzzes can be fixed by just pressing on the housing so it fits more snug.

For more info there’s a thread on buzzes, squeaks, and rattles. You may have seen it already.

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[CTR]

This is not a Miata. This is not an S2000. This is not a 90's Honda. I don't know how you can buy modern $50K sedan and expect anything close to those experiences. It's a MUCH larger vehicle. This is a car for people who haul groceries and kids that like to have fun occasionally. I hope you didn't replace your Miata and expect it to feel the same because it never will.

IMO what makes it great is that it's as close as you can get to those experiences without sacrificing all of the modern creature comforts and practicality of a brand new hatchback.

Go and drive a Miata again after you've put 1000 miles on your FL5 and tell us again how it doesn't make noises over bumps or when it's cold outside. I understand that your dash rattles right now but it will likely resolve itself after the cars breaks in. I have 10K miles on my FL5 and most of the really annoying stuff resolved itself. Plastic parts start to wear against each other and eventually stop making so much noise. Maybe you bought your Miata brand new but I suspect you didn't.

I drove an S2000 for nearly 10 years so I understand how rose-colored glasses and nostalgia make you forget the little details that bugged you about a car. I miss it sometimes but then hit full boost mid-corner at like 3K RPM that pulls all the way to redline and my fond memories vanish. My S2000 never gave me the same rush I've gotten in my FL5 in the last year of ownership.

 

[VLJ]

Actually, I bought all three of my Miatas brand new, the most recent being my 2023 GT soft top. It absolutely had no buzzes, squeaks, or rattles with the top down. With the top up, I might occasionally hear a tiny bit of squeaking from the top shifting around when it was really cold, but that was it. Inconsequential.

Simply put, the Miata felt far more expensive, despite being far less expensive. Much nicer interior, with more upscale materials, and a better build.

No, I am not expecting my FL5 to be as small as a Miata or an S2000. Of course not. I simply commented on my impressions upon driving it on a tight, twisty road. It feels large, because it is large. It's wider than the Camry, and just about as long. It's lighter, not as dense feeling, but it takes up just as much space in the lane, if not a bit more, due to that ultra wide front track.

I bought it precisely for the reason you just stated. I replaced two cars with this FL5. I wanted one car to handle both the practical side of the Camry Hybrid and the motorcycle-replacement side of the Miata. (I bought the Miata to replace my life of motorcycling, after getting smashed on my Kawasaki Z900 a few years ago by an 88-year-old man in an old Impala who had no business still driving on public roads.) I knew there would be compromises on both ends of the spectrum. I didn't expect the Type R to be as plush and silent as the hybrid Camry, nor as fun and playful as the drop-top, potato chip-sized, RWD Miata. I expected it to fall somewhere in the middle, leaning far more to the Miata than to the Camry.

So far, it's exhibited little of the Miata's joyous playfulness, and it's a million miles away from the Camry's serene cocoon of a cabin. I'd still say it leans more to the Miata than to the Camry, though.

I also don't really care just yet. I know it's way too early. I know to reserve all judgments until the thing is broken in and let off its leash. She hasn't had a chance yet to show me anything. Also, I know that with enough diligence the dashboard buzzing can be fixed, assuming it doesn't go away on its own over time, as you say. Additionally, I'm fully prepared to pop for the ITS damper module to quell the suspension's bounciness, if need be.

I'm trusting to the bones of this Type R. I know it's a big, practical, purpose-built sports car. That was the whole idea. That's why I bought it.

I'll give her time. I'm confident she'll get there.

 

[optronix]

Eh, I'm a little concerned now lol. I can tell you straight out the gate, my ITS felt wonderful even below 4k rpm. FWIW the car my ITS replaced was a 718 Boxster GTS 4.0. No, I didn't expect the Integra to fully match the driving experience of that car. But in many ways, it exceeded my expectations... even below 4k rpm.

Also important to note that despite its dimensions the CTR weighs approximately the same as a 718. Relative to any other sports sedan on the market, that is a remarkable accomplishment and has EVERYTHING to do with why the cars drive so well.

What I will also say is the ITS is not really "bouncy" under any conditions. That is pretty much a CTR thing, and I don't fully understand why because they share so many components and conceptually in Sport mode and above the ITS should exhibit the same behavior as a CTR in Comfort mode... But I noticed it way back when Throttle House did their review of the FL5 (and the FK8/LE before it), and especially in the Zygrene vid where he compared his ITS with Ohlins vs a stock CTR- it's even evident in videos where there is just an obscene amount of bounciness where the driver is visually shaken all over the place. Zygrene even mentioned that the seats in the CTR are more or less mandatory to keep you in place because you're jostled all over on anything short of a glass-smooth circuit. I still have yet to actually drive a CTR so take my "comparison" with a grain of salt- but there is no such drama in the ITS, even in Sport+ mode it's quite compliant under most circumstances.

Also one final note- I get what you're saying about "motorcycle replacement". I thought the same with the Boxsters I've had. Personally I think that element requires a drop top. I don't think you'll get the fulfillment from this car for that aspect... which is why I will eventually get another convertible. No matter how good a coupe/sedan is to drive, it can never match the open-air experience IMO. YMMV.

 

[Robert.C]

This is not a Miata. This is not an S2000. This is not a 90's Honda. I don't know how you can buy modern $50K sedan and expect anything close to those experiences. It's a MUCH larger vehicle. This is a car for people who haul groceries and kids that like to have fun occasionally. I hope you didn't replace your Miata and expect it to feel the same because it never will.

IMO what makes it great is that it's as close as you can get to those experiences without sacrificing all of the modern creature comforts and practicality of a brand new hatchback.

Go and drive a Miata again after you've put 1000 miles on your FL5 and tell us again how it doesn't make noises over bumps or when it's cold outside. I understand that your dash rattles right now but it will likely resolve itself after the cars breaks in. I have 10K miles on my FL5 and most of the really annoying stuff resolved itself. Plastic parts start to wear against each other and eventually stop making so much noise. Maybe you bought your Miata brand new but I suspect you didn't.

I drove an S2000 for nearly 10 years so I understand how rose-colored glasses and nostalgia make you forget the little details that bugged you about a car. I miss it sometimes but then hit full boost mid-corner at like 3K RPM that pulls all the way to redline and my fond memories vanish. My S2000 never gave me the same rush I've gotten in my FL5 in the last year of ownership.

Strangely defensive. You know it’s possible to like something and still criticize it, right?

 

[CTR]

Strangely defensive. You know it’s possible to like something and still criticize it, right?

Nah. It's just weird when people expect a big car to feel like a small car. It's like buying a F-350 and complaining about it being hard to park sometimes.

 

[VLJ]

optronix, you're absolutely correct about the correlation between a motorcycle and a convertible (especially a tiny, lightweight, two-seat convertible), vs a motorcycle and a large sedan or coupe.

Once I added a set of FM sways to the Miata to quell the body roll, that little ripper was as close to the motorcycling experience as I'm ever likely going to get in a conventional car. The only aspect of motorcycling I really missed when driving the Miata was the ability to split lanes, and the ease with which I could avoid getting stuck behind someone on a two-lane road.

Still, the Miata wasn't nearly as practical as the Type R...except for the fuel mileage. It didn't matter how hard I drove the thing, it always returned 32-36 MPG. On the highway it had no problem achieving 40 MPG. This, despite an EPA rating of 26 in the city, 34 on the highway. Meanwhile, my FL5's fuel gauge is showing only 50% remaining after only 107 miles, starting from a full tank. The display says I'm up to 20.8 MPG now.

Someone here warned me that the fuel mileage would be shockingly horrendous over the first couple of tanks during break-in, and it looks like they were right. Fortunately, they also said that it mellows out soon thereafter.

I sure hope so. At my current rate, I'll only get 200 miles. The display initially said my range was 373 miles from this 12.4-gallon fuel cell, but I'm not going to see anywhere near that number on this first tank, despite limiting the RPM to 4K. Makes me wonder what it'll be once I can finally open her up and visit the upper reaches of the tach.

Watching that fuel gauge plummet last night, I was thinking, 'I thought I bought a Civic, not a Mustang GT!'

Btw, I'm already fairly certain that I will end up swapping to your ITS module. I want to be able to use (and enjoy) the Sport and +R modes, and on my favorite roads here I don't think I'll be able to with the CTR module.

 

[VLJ]

Nah. It's just weird when people expect a big car to feel like a small car. It's like buying a F-350 and complaining about it being hard to park sometimes.

Where did I say that I ever expected it to feel like a small car?

I didn't. All I stated was an observaton that the car is, in fact, very wide, to a degree that I need to be careful not to drift over the centerline. I didn't state any shock or dismay over this observation. Rather, it was merely one thing I noted in my initial impressions, among many other initial impressions.

 

[Clark_Kent]

optronix, you're absolutely correct about the correlation between a motorcycle and a convertible (especially a tiny, lightweight, two-seat convertible), vs a motorcycle and a large sedan or coupe.

Once I added a set of FM sways to the Miata to quell the body roll, that little ripper was as close to the motorcycling experience as I'm ever likely going to get in a conventional car. The only aspect of motorcycling I really missed when driving the Miata was the ability to split lanes, and the ease with which I could avoid getting stuck behind someone on a two-lane road.

Still, the Miata wasn't nearly as practical as the Type R...except for the fuel mileage. It didn't matter how hard I drove the thing, it always returned 32-36 MPG. On the highway it had no problem achieving 40 MPG. This, despite an EPA rating of 26 in the city, 34 on the highway. Meanwhile, my FL5's fuel gauge is showing only 50% remaining after only 107 miles, starting from a full tank. The display says I'm up to 20.8 MPG now.

Someone here warned me that the fuel mileage would be shockingly horrendous over the first couple of tanks during break-in, and it looks like they were right. Fortunately, they also said that it mellows out soon thereafter.

I sure hope so. At my current rate, I'll only get 200 miles. The display initially said my range was 373 miles from this 12.4-gallon fuel cell, but I'm not going to see anywhere near that number on this first tank, despite limiting the RPM to 4K. Makes me wonder what it'll be once I can finally open her up and visit the upper reaches of the tach.

Watching that fuel gauge plummet last night, I was thinking, 'I thought I bought a Civic, not a Mustang GT!'

Btw, I'm already fairly certain that I will end up swapping to your ITS module. I want to be able to use (and enjoy) the Sport and +R modes, and on my favorite roads here I don't think I'll be able to with the CTR module.

Make that assessment for yourself with ample seat time before making the move. The collective wisdom of the forums is mixed on the FL5 ADS module. It's fine for some, but not for others. It's all a matter of your use case - what you plan to use the car for, the roads in your area and what you're accustomed to.

 

[VLJ]

Clark_Kent, that's some sage advice, and I have no choice but to heed it, because the ITS module seems to be unavailable at the moment. Looks like I'll have at least a few months to continue learning about the CTR, while the ITS module remains out of reach.

I think that's a good thing. This way, I'll be fully informed when it's finally time to make the decision.

One thing I read about swapping modules made no sense to me, which was that swapping to the ITS module meant losing a bit of the CTR's amazingly sharp, quick, turn-in feel. I don't see how that would be the case, and I tend to chalk it up to the placebo effect, except that more than one person chimed in to agree with the OP. A few people stated that they felt a bit of directness was lost in both the steering and handling after they made the swap.

As for my use case and the roads I'm accustomed to, my initial impressions are that my favorite roads aren't smooth enough to enjoy the CTR's module. I was on the fence as to whether to go the full coilover route with the Miata, due to the very occasional bouts of the back end skipping around over some of the washboard bits of our bumpier roads, but while taking the CTR over one of those roads last night I found myself wishing for the smooth compliancy and accuracy of the Miata's stock suspension. The CTR bounced around so much more, even in Comfort mode. On those roads, Sport and +R are simply not even on the table as options.

One of the things I like about the CTR is the concept of an easily daily-able Comfort mode that can be transformed with the flip of a switch into a much sharper, more aggressive and accurate canyon ripper. As it sits now, at least in my initial impressions, I feel like my CTR is mostly going to be relegated to a one-mode experience. I don't want that. I want to be able to use and enjoy all three fixed modes, and I don't have access to a billiard table-smooth track.

I should also add that I haven't checked the tire pressures yet. For all I know, many of my initial impressions are being colored by wildly overinflated tires, which was certainly the case when I bought the Miata. Those tires are supposed to be set at a cold 29 psi, and the dealer set them to a cold 38 psi. Not good. Once I lowered them to the correct pressure, the improvement of the freeway ride was immediately noticeable.

So, again, for all I know, many of my initial impressions so far might be rendered largely moot. I'll make sure to check the the pressures today.

 

[CTR]

Where did I say that I ever expected it to feel like a small car?

I didn't. All I stated was an observaton that the car is, in fact, very wide, to a degree that I need to be careful not to drift over the centerline. I didn't state any shock or dismay over this observation. Rather, it was merely one thing I noted in my initial impressions, among many other initial impressions.

You're right - I read your initial post again. The things that jumped out to me initially might have been from my memory of other people's impressions complaining about how big the car is in other threads. I still think it's a little unfair to compare how a car feels in a lane to a Miata. Just about every car will feel huge compared to a Miata...

I distinctly remember driving a new Accord about 10 years ago immediately after driving my S2000. It felt huge but that was because I was comparing to my tiny sports car. It's just the way modern cars are and it shouldn't be a surprise.

Like @optronix when I first got my car I could tell I loved how it handled despite keeping it below 4K RPM. The car isn't completely transformed once you can rev it to 7K so I hope your expectations don't lead to disappointment.

 

[VLJ]

I'm already very impressed with the handling. So far, that's been the main highlight of the car for me, as long as you'll allow me to differentiate between "handling" and "suspension damping/compliance." The turn in, the mechanical grip, the directness, they're all outstanding. I also fully expected the CTR to be and feel like a much larger car, compared to the Miata. That's why I bought it, so that I could have both a fun sports car and a larger, more practical daily driver, like the Camry, in one car.

I admit that I was a bit surprised to discover just how large this CTR really is. While I looked forward to being able to replace the practicality of the Camry with the CTR, I wasn't expecting it to be literally as large as the Camry, or damn near so, anyway. It's definitely wider. My last Civic was nowhere near this large. It's incredible, how huge so many cars have become now. Current Civics are larger than old Accords. New Accords are as large as many recent full-sized luxury sedans. The 911 is now as wide and massive as many supercars.

Crazy, this upward size creep.

Still, this makes our new hatchback CTR that much more practical as a daily, its split personality being one of its best attributes.

Also, I suspect that you are correct about the car not being completely transformed once it's revved to redline. Most of the reviews I've seen describe the powerband as very torquey and linear, with not much turbo lag, and no old-school massive jump in acceleration once it finally hits the boost. No classic VTEC top-end hit, either.

So, yes, that's another thing that surprised me last night. So far, It really doesn't feel particularly fast. A few times I accidentally let the revs climb to 5K in second and third, with the engine mode in the Individual option set to +R. Very brief episodes, but it still didn't feel fast, or even turbo charged. It felt like a normal NA motor, with normal acceleration and linearity. Smooth, glitch-free power, but nothing special. Certainly nothing that shouts, "Sports car power! Nurburgring and Suzuka FWD record holder!"

Are those last two thousand RPM going to make the difference? I suppose they will, since so many people who have driven countless fast cars describe the speed and acceleration of the FL5 as "explosive," once it gets off the line. Being FWD, it's clearly not a dragracer. It's not going to beat many things from a dig, and I couldn't care less. It is supposed to be wicked fast once it gets going, however, and that's what I'm still looking forward to experiencing.

So far, I haven't felt any of that, but I know there's more to come.

 

[optronix]

I'm already very impressed with the handling. So far, that's been the main highlight of the car for me, as long as you'll allow me to differentiate between "handling" and "suspension damping/compliance." The turn in, the mechanical grip, the directness, they're all outstanding. I also fully expected the CTR to be and feel like a much larger car, compared to the Miata. That's why I bought it, so that I could have both a fun sports car and a larger, more practical daily driver, like the Camry, in one car.

I admit that I was a bit surprised to discover just how large this CTR really is. While I looked forward to being able to replace the practicality of the Camry with the CTR, I wasn't expecting it to be literally as large as the Camry, or damn near so, anyway. It's definitely wider. My last Civic was nowhere near this large. It's incredible, how huge so many cars have become now. Current Civics are larger than old Accords. New Accords are as large as many recent full-sized luxury sedans. The 911 is now as wide and massive as many supercars.

Crazy, this upward size creep.

Still, this makes our new hatchback CTR that much more practical as a daily, its split personality being one of its best attributes.

Also, I suspect that you are correct about the car not being completely transformed once it's revved to redline. Most of the reviews I've seen describe the powerband as very torquey and linear, with not much turbo lag, and no old-school massive jump in acceleration once it finally hits the boost. No classic VTEC top-end hit, either.

So, yes, that's another thing that surprised me last night. So far, It really doesn't feel particularly fast. A few times I accidentally let the revs climb to 5K in second and third, with the engine mode in the Individual option set to +R. Very brief episodes, but it still didn't feel fast, or even turbo charged. It felt like a normal NA motor, with normal acceleration and linearity. Smooth, glitch-free power, but nothing special. Certainly nothing that shouts, "Sports car power! Nurburgring and Suzuka FWD record holder!"

Are those last two thousand RPM going to make the difference? I suppose they will, since so many people who have driven countless fast cars describe the speed and acceleration of the FL5 as "explosive," once it gets off the line. Being FWD, it's clearly not a dragracer. It's not going to beat many things from a dig, and I couldn't care less. It is supposed to be wicked fast once it gets going, however, and that's what I'm still looking forward to experiencing.

So far, I haven't felt any of that, but I know there's more to come.

I always think of pictures like this whenever I feel the car is big:

As for how fast it is, it's not mind-bendingly fast, no. But IMO, it's plenty adequate for anything you'll need to be doing on the street. As I mentioned earlier I came from a much faster car and I only rarely feel like I miss the extra power. Some people prioritize this more though, so YMMV.

That said, supposedly listening to reviewers, the CTR in particular does need to be wound out by design; my Integra apparently has a pretty noticeable advantage in mid-range torque that belies the "extra 5 horsepower" story.

 

[VLJ]

Yep, optronix, but for me the problem with the Integra is that Acura tuned it for 93 octane, which isn't available here in California. It will accept our crappy 91 octane, but with a penalty of reduced power, fuel mileage, and potential knocking and pinging. Running it on the CTR's recommended 91, it won't have any advantage on an FL5. This is one of the main reasons I opted for the Type R over the Type S.

So, okay, I checked my tire pressures.

Unbelieveable. Effing unbelievable.

53 psi, all the way around. Cold tires. That's how the monkey who performed the PDI at the dealership set mine up, to run on rubber bricks, basically. I thought it was bad when the Miata was delivered to me with 38-39 cold PSI when it's supposed to be set to 29 cold PSI, but fifty-freaking-three cold PSI, when it's supposed to be 35 in the front and 33 in the rear? That's simply insane.

How? Why?

Anyway, after lowering the pressures to 35 and 33, I headed out for my first sunny day in the twisties.

Needless to say, my FL5 is rather different now.



The overall cabin noise was significantly diminished, with the dashboard buzz in particular reduced by an easy, oh, fifty percent? Seventy percent? No longer does the area around the infotainment screen buzz like crazy every time I'm anywhere near 4K on the tach. It still does it a little, but not like clockwork anymore, and not as severely even when it does do it. A lot of the time, it doesn't do it at all now. With the stereo on, I can't hear the buzz.

It still buzzes enough that I'll take it in to have it fixed. That is, if it doesn't go away on its own, as some people have mentioned it may very well do. If I had to live with it the way it is now, I definitely could, but on a $50K car I feel that I shouldn't have to, so I won't. Once that issue is resolved, I'll be nearly homefree.

The bounciness was markedly reduced with the correct tire pressures. Zero chance I would need Comfort mode to be any softer now. It's completely fine for everyday comfort. The ride quality on the freeway is a no-brainer, and the suspension chatter is now at a similar level to the Miata, which is perfectly acceptable to me. The CLR has less float than the Miata, so I'd say its suspension performance is now a bit better than the Mazda's.

It absolutely works.

Sport mode is now on the table. I was able to use it quite a bit, without any major penalty. There were a few bumpy sections where I preferred reverting back to Comfort, but if Sport were the CTR's only mode, I could certainly live with it. I would accept that I chose a sports car, and sports cars are suposed to have a firm, occasionally busy ride. It posed zero problems on the freeway, so that's fairly telling. I ended up equating Sport mode to the ride quality of my GSX-R1000. You knew you weren't on a touring bike with that one, or even a sport-tourer. You were on a hardcore sportbike, with impeccable chassis control, but plushness was never the name of the game there.

It's good. It feels right. It suits the look, attitude, and mission statement of the car.

+R mode is also sorta semi on the table now. I found a few high-speed sweepers where it worked, and was preferable to Sport or Comfort, at least until I hit that one small bump that bopped me completely out of my seat. I actually laughed when it happened, it was so dramatic. I'd never experienced anything like that before. The other thing I noticed with +R mode was how much it firms up the steering. I'm not sure that I prefer it that way, but I can see how it might be beneficial on a big track.

Which brings me to one of the things I'm learning I really appreciate about this CTR. I love how the different modes really are different. The steering is night-and-day different between Comfort and +R, and even Sport feels noticeably firmer than Comfort.

Two questions were certainly answered in today's run. First off, the speed is there. No, it's not fast out of the hole, but as a momentum car it's blisteringly fast. It gathers speed pretty convincingly in third, fourth, and fifth gears, inhaling long stretches of tarmac in an instant as it swallows up every car in its path.

It's very much a recipe for losing one's license, the way it so effortlessly handles higher speeds.

The other question that was answered was now I know where the money went into this thing. It went into that front end. Holy shit, that front end is magic. It absolutely should not be able to do what it does. The way it grips as it tightens up the corner, and then the way it slingshots the car out of the corner, it carries so much more corner speed than anything else I've driven. I could tell that nope, the Miata would not be able to hang with that thing, not without risking life and limb, pushing harder than anyone should ever attempt to do on the street. On the track, especially a big track, forget it. No chance.

It gave me a glimpse of what +R is really all about, even when I wasn't in +R. The point of this car is exactly what it says on the tin. It's a weapon. Forget the Civic thing, this is a serious, track-focused weapon.

I can feel the love building now. Today offered an appetizing taste.

Not sure whether I'll end up opting for the ITS module, but I have an order in for one at my local Acura dealer. No ETA available. I could easily see declining it when it comes in, but it will be good to have the option.

Since this was a thread about initial impressions, I have a few more now...

Love the tiny key fob, which is basically half the size of some of my others. There's no reason for a key fob to be any larger than this CTR fob, and the red Honda logo is a nice touch.

Love the design and location of the cupholders. They're so deeply inset that even when both are in use nothing gets in the way of my forearm and the shifter. No jiggling around, either. Bottles and cups are very steady and secure. Perfect cupholder design.

NO PIANO BLACK IN THE INTERIOR!

Oh, hell yeah! Matte surfaces everywhere, even around the chicken wire vent, and the BMW-style faux aluminum plating covering the center console is an inspired choice. No smudges, no scratching, no sunlight reflections. Great job, Honda.

So far, unlike the Topher's experience, my Apple Car Play has worked flawlessly with the infotainment. No glitches, no pixilation, reliably fast response times...all of it. Zero issues. I don't know whether Honda sorted this out with the 2024 model, but at the present I feel no need to ditch the native Navigation app, which he needed to do in order for his APC to play nicely with the Honda system.

All in all, today represented a series of welcome revelations. I'm now confident that I will really love my car, and be glad for my choice. I'll still want to eliminate the remaining buzz in the dash, and I'm not sure whether to stick with the stock CTR module or go with the ITS unit, but at least now I know that I could definitely live with the ride quality and handling of this car, even if I were never to switch modules.

There was one dogshit bad thing, though...

Rolling down Hwy 20 toward Grass Valley, a CHP cruiser appeared up ahead, approaching from the opposite direction. As soon as he drew near me, his stupid SUV kicked up a rock that blasted my windshield, causing a six-inch crack right above the steering wheel.

W...t...f! Literally my first day out in the sunshine with my shiny blue FL5, and a CHP cruiser destroys my brand-new windshield.

Gah.

 

[CTR]

Wow! You may also want to check that they removed the spring spacers up front. Common PDI mistake and if they didn't properly deflate the tires they could have missed those too.

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