M Car to Si?

[VarmintCong]

While not exactly the same, it's sorta close. I sold a pristine 2011 E92 M3 in 2019 to buy a new Fiesta ST. It was my second, the 2015 was totaled when a lady turned in front of me and I t-boned her; that's when I got the M3.

While the M3 was awesome, and the 4.0 V8 sounded glorious, believe it or not it was just not fun to drive. It was a no fun at all to hustle around town and the shifter sucked. The Fiesta on the other hand was a blast to drive. I'm not sure there's a better car for urban warfare.

Point is as y'all already know, it's not always about the power. My Si is supposed to be here next week and I can't wait. I traded the 2019 Fiesta in for a 2.0T Accord Sport last September (they gave me $3000 more than I paid for it in 2019!) and it's pretty much the same thing as the M3...crazy fast but just too damn big and not fun to drive.

I don't consider it a "downgrade". To me, being fun to drive pretty much trumps everything else.

My 2023 Focus has the 1.5L 3 cylinder turbo from the Fiesta ST (maybe the newer one?). I drove your gen ST once and it felt very raw, like a 1990s BMW. Even my Focus doesn’t feel much like it, it feels more like a depowered GTI with better steering.

I don’t think a 10th or especially 11th gen Si will feel like the ST at all. I don’t think any new car will feel like that. I think the GR Corolla might be the closest thing among new cars.

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[VarmintCong]

No matter how great a car is, if you can't relax and enjoy it, sort of kills the point.
As for not caring - yeah, I still care about every ouch that happens to my FK8.

I just won't use that as an excuse not to drive it - because that is what I bought it for.

I had a coworker who bought a Lotus Esprit and put a ton of miles on it, he was a happy dude. ?

 

[VarmintCong]

Today’s BMWs are happiest on the track or mountain roads where there’s no cops.

if you just drive them on the street they will feel a little boring. That’s why I stopped buying BMWs, they got too powerful and too numb.

 

[rob495]

How big of a performance delta did you feel between the FL5 and M3?
I upgraded from a tuned 9th Gen Si to an FL5 and found ~ 30% improvement in acceleration (noticeable, but not mind blowing). Handling and stability though is on a whole another level.

Whoops, sorry, I reread my post and mistyped. Here is my list of cars in the past 3 years:

2019 FK8
2021 M2 Comp manual
2022 M3 Base manual

Current:
2023 FL5
2013 Ariel Atom

The M2 Comp absolutely crushes the Si in every performance metric. The M2 Comp also crushes the FL5 in terms of acceleration. But I prefer the high speed handling of the FL5 over the G80 as well as the M2 Comp. I feel ... safer for lack of a better word. The G80 has a more robust manual transmission but the throws are rubbery. I took a gamble and bought the FL5 praying Honda addressed the issues in the FK8 transmission (grinds and lockouts). So far so good. All 3 cars have excellent brakes but the FL5 and the FK8 stop harder, IMO.

But back to the Si and the original poster, it’s a wonderful car and one of the best values money can buy. You just can’t compare the Si in any meaningful performance metric to the M2 Comp. It does, however, do all of the commuting stuff better.

 

[rob495]

My m2 has been my garage queen and really only drive it when it’s nice out. This is why I want to sell it, I want something more useable that I can ding up and park in the city and not worry about something happening to it. I’ve had some rock chips on the windshield driving on the hwy which really annoyed me. I would like to have diff driving experiences and for now the m2 will have to go

New Si and a motorcycle, problem solved

 

[rob495]

Today’s BMWs are happiest on the track or mountain roads where there’s no cops.

if you just drive them on the street they will feel a little boring. That’s why I stopped buying BMWs, they got too powerful and too numb.

Today’s BMW’s are happiest going 100+ mph. But yes you are right, I could never completely bond with my M3, it was a bit numb.

 

[JDMFTW]

Whoops, sorry, I reread my post and mistyped. Here is my list of cars in the past 3 years:

2019 FK8
2021 M2 Comp manual
2022 M3 Base manual

Current:
2023 FL5
2013 Ariel Atom

The M2 Comp absolutely crushes the Si in every performance metric. The M2 Comp also crushes the FL5 in terms of acceleration. But I prefer the high speed handling of the FL5 over the G80 as well as the M2 Comp. I feel ... safer for lack of a better word. The G80 has a more robust manual transmission but the throws are rubbery. I took a gamble and bought the FL5 praying Honda addressed the issues in the FK8 transmission (grinds and lockouts). So far so good. All 3 cars have excellent brakes but the FL5 and the FK8 stop harder, IMO.

But back to the Si and the original poster, it’s a wonderful car and one of the best values money can buy. You just can’t compare the Si in any meaningful performance metric to the M2 Comp. It does, however, do all of the commuting stuff better.

this is good feedback! I never had any serious intention to compare the M2C to the si. Honestly just trying to justify it in my head and focus on ways the si is better haha.

I’m about ready to put down a deposit on a car. My dealer is asking $1,500 over for the si (undercoating $800; and 700 in Honda accessories) or $7,500 for the Type R which is coming in a month. Im very tempted to get the CTR, but this defeats the purpose of buying an every day car that I can ding up and not feel bad about. In my head the si will suit me better and Is enough car for me in the twisties. I wish it was quicker in a straight line, but I know you can add a tune. however I’m hesitant about doing that and facing some reliability issues. Thoughts?

 

[Cornercarver]

Many people in this forum have put a Hondata or Ktuner on their SI, usually good results if done by a legit shop.
I kept my SI stock, so can't comment from personal experience.

 

[McSwine]

My 2023 Focus has the 1.5L 3 cylinder turbo from the Fiesta ST (maybe the newer one?). I drove your gen ST once and it felt very raw, like a 1990s BMW. Even my Focus doesn’t feel much like it, it feels more like a depowered GTI with better steering.

I don’t think a 10th or especially 11th gen Si will feel like the ST at all. I don’t think any new car will feel like that. I think the GR Corolla might be the closest thing among new cars.

"Raw". The perfect description of the Fiesta ST. I don't think was there a more analog car you could buy in 2019 with the exception of a Lotus Elise, which is not exactly mainsteam. I'm so jealous you have a 1.5 triple and I would give ANYTHING to have a 2 door Euro Fiesta with that engine.

I'm well aware the 11th gen Si won't feel anything close to the Fiesta but it should be a huge improvement over the '22 Accord 2.0T Sport. The Accord is a great car...fast, comfortable, relatively good looking, but it's a tuna boat. Being an old fart (65 yrs/old), you would have thought I learned my lesson by now after having the M3. But let's face it, the Civic isn't exactly small anymore. Maybe the same size as a late '90's Accord?

I'm hoping at the very least I won't have to do a 4 point turn trying to park the damn thing in my garage.

 

[rob495]

this is good feedback! I never had any serious intention to compare the M2C to the si. Honestly just trying to justify it in my head and focus on ways the si is better haha.

I’m about ready to put down a deposit on a car. My dealer is asking $1,500 over for the si (undercoating $800; and 700 in Honda accessories) or $7,500 for the Type R which is coming in a month. Im very tempted to get the CTR, but this defeats the purpose of buying an every day car that I can ding up and not feel bad about. In my head the si will suit me better and Is enough car for me in the twisties. I wish it was quicker in a straight line, but I know you can add a tune. however I’m hesitant about doing that and facing some reliability issues. Thoughts?

I personally would never mod (besides tires) my daily driver. I learned a long time ago that if you want a more powerful car, don’t spend thousands and compromise your warranty, just buy a faster car. If I were in your shoes, I’d do either:


1) Civic Si and a motorcycle

2) Miata and a beater

3) GR86

I drove my old s2000 through 5 New England winters with nothing but dedicated snow tires and a sand bag in my trunk. Don’t rule out rwd. But yeah, I completely agree with you, forget the Type R, you will be close to the price point of the M2 when considered the money you put towards the payments. Just to reiterate, I love the Si, it’s a great great car. Let us know what you do.

 

[VarmintCong]

"Raw". The perfect description of the Fiesta ST. I don't think was there a more analog car you could buy in 2019 with the exception of a Lotus Elise, which is not exactly mainsteam. I'm so jealous you have a 1.5 triple and I would give ANYTHING to have a 2 door Euro Fiesta with that engine.

I'm well aware the 11th gen Si won't feel anything close to the Fiesta but it should be a huge improvement over the '22 Accord 2.0T Sport. The Accord is a great car...fast, comfortable, relatively good looking, but it's a tuna boat. Being an old fart (65 yrs/old), you would have thought I learned my lesson by now after having the M3. But let's face it, the Civic isn't exactly small anymore. Maybe the same size as a late '90's Accord?

I'm hoping at the very least I won't have to do a 4 point turn trying to park the damn thing in my garage.

yeah the Si will be a lot more fun than the Accord, I enjoyed my 2020 and would have kept it if we didn’t have to move to Taiwan.

the 2023 Focus is so nice I’m pissed at Ford for not selling it in the US. They do sell the Focus ST (in manual!) in Taiwan, but it’s $48k, vs $28k for our ST Line X (our model is built in Taiwan so it avoids the 35% tax).

 

[Cornercarver]

I personally would never mod (besides tires) my daily driver. I learned a long time ago that if you want a more powerful car, don’t spend thousands and compromise your warranty, just buy a faster car. If I were in your shoes, I’d do either:


1) Civic Si and a motorcycle

2) Miata and a beater

3) GR86

I drove my old s2000 through 5 New England winters with nothing but dedicated snow tires and a sand bag in my trunk. Don’t rule out rwd. But yeah, I completely agree with you, forget the Type R, you will be close to the price point of the M2 when considered the money you put towards the payments. Just to reiterate, I love the Si, it’s a great great car. Let us know what you do.

Ar new price + ADM, the 11th gen Type R is pricey. That said, a good used 10th gen...lots of bang for the buck. Speaking from my ownership experience.

 

[Pekingduck]

Ar new price + ADM, the 11th gen Type R is pricey. That said, a good used 10th gen...lots of bang for the buck. Speaking from my ownership experience.

I feel the same way at times wanting to get fk8 used. I been looking for fl5 and been getting 15-20k markup. I do notice it been sliding and they are holding to fl5 longer at the dealer. I hope it means I can get fl5 within my budget. Main reason I want to get new is no smog for 5-7 years.

 

[rob495]

Ar new price + ADM, the 11th gen Type R is pricey. That said, a good used 10th gen...lots of bang for the buck. Speaking from my ownership experience.

It’s difficult to find an FK8 that hasn’t been beat on and is cheap. If you look at used FK8 prices, they are inflated. That said, I personally think all Type R’s at this point, new and used, are not very good values. I’ve never recommended the new Type R to the original poster. My point is that modding a car to go faster is a rabbit hole. You start with a reflash and the next thing you know, you end up with a heavy duty clutch, a fart can, running E85, and a terrible smell everytime you come to a red light because you removed your cat. On top of all that, when your turbo goes, you won’t be covered under warranty. The OP is looking for a commuters car, which the Si will completely meet his needs. I’m only recommending putting a little more spice into his daily commute by getting a cheap motorcycle (which he can sell for the same price he bought it) or some other car that is more focused on handling ie GR86 or Miata.

 

[JDMFTW]

It’s difficult to find an FK8 that hasn’t been beat on and is cheap. If you look at used FK8 prices, they are inflated. That said, I personally think all Type R’s at this point, new and used, are not very good values. I’ve never recommended the new Type R to the original poster. My point is that modding a car to go faster is a rabbit hole. You start with a reflash and the next thing you know, you end up with a heavy duty clutch, a fart can, running E85, and a terrible smell everytime you come to a red light because you removed your cat. On top of all that, when your turbo goes, you won’t be covered under warranty. The OP is looking for a commuters car, which the Si will completely meet his needs. I’m only recommending putting a little more spice into his daily commute by getting a cheap motorcycle (which he can sell for the same price he bought it) or some other car that is more focused on handling ie GR86 or Miata.

I previously owned a 2017 Wrx and added an off the shelf tune from MA Performance. tune It was enough for me and was a good blend of performance and reliability. I never had any problems with the tune afterdriving it for 2 years. That said, I would consider a tune for the si but I really just want something reliable/versatile first, fun to drive 2nd. I think I want to focus on other parts of my life and not invest so much time/money/emotional energy into my car. The si really appeals to me bc it’s so economical and yet still somewhat of a drivers car bc of the transmission and handling. I think Im going to pull the trigger next week with putting down a deposit. First mod will be MIichellin PS4S and PPF.

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