Don’t Pay Markups

[Z3N]

Think of it this way...
A small, tucked away mountain home could be priceless to one person, and not worth a dime to another. Likewise, a million dollar mansion in the Hills could mean the world to one, and nothing at all to the next guy. Same with cars; sure there are different categories and classes of cars, but each car is distinct in its own characteristics and some find high value in the Type R for what it is - nothing more, nothing less.

Sponsored

 

[RoidRage]

Think of it this way...
A small, tucked away mountain home could be priceless to one person, and not worth a dime to another. Likewise, a million dollar mansion in the Hills could mean the world to one, and nothing at all to the next guy. Same with cars; sure there are different categories and classes of cars, but each car is distinct in its own characteristics and some find high value in the Type R for what it is - nothing more, nothing less.

I've been saying the same thing over and over and yet people still can't grasp the concept of relativity.

Everything in life is relative to your upbringing, financial situation, potential for future income trajectory and consumerism stance.

Money mostly dictates this for most people. And the fact that people can't understand those in the upper middle to 5%+ class really don't care about $10k for example. The item in question and its appeal to the individual is what matters. In those cases they will move heaven and earth to obtain that want.

Specifically, for myself, I didn't work my ass off to get to where I am so that I am priced out of what I want for a measly 10k. You can't take your money with u to the grave.

But again everyone is in a different situation...

 

[Boostlag]

I’ve got some super rare nfts to sell you

 

[RoidRage]

I’ve got some super rare nfts to sell you

Oh boy I really hope u didn't get caught up in the largest scam in financial speculation history since tulip mania lol

 

[mbaapk]

“Everything in life is relative to your upbringing, financial situation, potential for future income trajectory and consumerism stance.”

There are a lot of variables. I don't think $10k would ever become measly to me and Im doing pretty well. Everyone is different and for me its more the principle of dealers fn with customers and marking up that high. Can’t put my finger on it but doesn’t seem right. I actually would be out at that point (i currently have a better agreement in place) just because it feels gross.

Market dynamics and all variables aside, I think we can all agree we are entitled to differing opinions.

 

[RoidRage]

“Everything in life is relative to your upbringing, financial situation, potential for future income trajectory and consumerism stance.”

There are a lot of variables. I don't think $10k would ever become measly to me and Im doing pretty well. Everyone is different and for me its more the principle of dealers fn with customers and marking up that high. Can’t put my finger on it but doesn’t seem right. I actually would be out at that point (i currently have a better agreement in place) just because it feels gross.

Market dynamics and all variables aside, I think we can all agree we are entitled to differing opinions.

Oh 100%, I attribute my willingness to pay to what a Markup looks like in Canada. Any additional $$ we pay above MSRP goes towards some kind of incentive, whether its warranties, tints, rust proofing, PPF etc etc. You get something for your $$. Unlike you guys in the states with your ADM's, unfortunately.

But to call someone who has the funds to easily pay the $10K+ MSRP stupid or to belittle them for their position is fucking stupid AF. Dont hate the person for being in the situation they are. I would hope they wouldnt laugh at those who cant afford basic means of transportation to get to work etc.

 

[Z3N]

Differing opinions
Shared FL5 love

 

[TimeRacer]

I've been saying the same thing over and over and yet people still can't grasp the concept of relativity.

Everything in life is relative to your upbringing, financial situation, potential for future income trajectory and consumerism stance.

Money mostly dictates this for most people. And the fact that people can't understand those in the upper middle to 5%+ class really don't care about $10k for example. The item in question and its appeal to the individual is what matters. In those cases they will move heaven and earth to obtain that want.

Specifically, for myself, I didn't work my ass off to get to where I am so that I am priced out of what I want for a measly 10k. You can't take your money with u to the grave.

But again everyone is in a different situation...

If these people really stuck to their guns, they wouldn't of bought anything the past 12 months. Food, TV's, phones, clothes, gas... nothing. Because otherwise you're a sucker for paying the inflated prices. The car market, just like every other market, is what it is. Supply shortages driving up pricing. Only difference is the manufacturer/producer is stating a suggested price that is normally unknown to the consumer or truly variable (look at clothes or furniture pricing, MSRP varies wildly especially if a store is having a 'sale'). This mentality they have is like trying to blast someone for buying a TV not on Black Friday or the week of the Superbowl. Along with the psychological difference between a "markup" and "sale" even if the paid price is exactly the same. Simply treat the price as current market value then whatever price they choose to pay [MSRP or lower it appears] the "on sale" price if they're ever able to find one at that price after hours to months of searching. An example is go look to go buy any brand new Civic right now. You can't even get those at MSRP easily because supply outpaces demand by a fair margin, the market is what the market you're trying to buy into is. If they don't want to pay on principle or cost, just don't let FOMO kick them on the way out as they're simply going to be sidelined for well over a year if not longer and possibly miss out entirely with the continued supply chain disruptions and low production volume.

 

[citrus]

We can all be happy if we pretend the FL5 MSRP is 60K USD. Or something like that.

On the flip side, I think about how much the same money (adjusted for inflation or otherwise) would've bought brand-new 10 or 20 years ago, and it's pretty astounding how much of a value FL5 is at MSRP. Pay a bit extra doesn't seem too unfair, especially given market conditions.

 

[Neciovato]

This is just not true at the moment. People who are financially responsible and essentially "well off" will still be "well off" if we enter a full blown recession. The lower class and lower middle class are the ones that suffer., and they've been priced out of "nice" new cars for quite sometime already. I'm in Texas, there are enough 20 somethings with 100k+ tech jobs that prices and demand don't cave to "recessions."

I don’t think its a question of whether or not people can afford a car or not. It’s the idea that during the shortage and the pandemic - people were getting more for their trade-ins but they were also borrowing a lot more to afford the cars that were out there. The auctions for the used cars were much higher as well thus driving up the costs of cars.
What we are starting to see is a higher delinquency rate on the cars since the LTV was much higher than typical loans. Bc of this - we are starting to see more repos thus driving the cost of the vehicles at the auctions down - which as the repos increase considerably and the prices of the auctions continue to go lower - it will drive the used car market prices down. So car dealers that are holding onto these vehicles for significantly over MSRP will be forced to sell cheaper or lose their ass on them. Regardless of whether the public can afford the cars or not - its starting to be a buyers market and not a sellers market - just check out Vloggers like Lucky Lopez or Your Auto Advocate who have been reporting a lot of these things - not to over exaggerate but the banks will be looking for another bailout soon enough and the raising of interest rates isn’t going to help their situation.

Anyway - off the soapbox haha

 

[TimeRacer]

We can all be happy if we pretend the FL5 MSRP is 60K USD. Or something like that.

On the flip side, I think about how much the same money (adjusted for inflation or otherwise) would've bought brand-new 10 or 20 years ago, and it's pretty astounding how much of a value FL5 is at MSRP. Pay a bit extra doesn't seem too unfair, especially given market conditions.

Think it's fair to say the original Integra Type-R is an equivalent comparison point which had an MSRP of $24,450. Cheapest car back then was probably around $10k? So about 2.5x cheapest car cost. Today, with all our new safety, emissions requirements and inflation, the cheapest car is around $16k. So if the CTR is ~$40k it's holding that 2.5x cheapest car cost. Back in 2001 people were saying the same type of thing for the original ITR as well, paying $25k for an Integra (which first versions had no radio or A/C).

 

[citrus]

Right, that's about what I was thinking.

 

[Tickle]

I don’t think its a question of whether or not people can afford a car or not. It’s the idea that during the shortage and the pandemic - people were getting more for their trade-ins but they were also borrowing a lot more to afford the cars that were out there. The auctions for the used cars were much higher as well thus driving up the costs of cars.
What we are starting to see is a higher delinquency rate on the cars since the LTV was much higher than typical loans. Bc of this - we are starting to see more repos thus driving the cost of the vehicles at the auctions down - which as the repos increase considerably and the prices of the auctions continue to go lower - it will drive the used car market prices down. So car dealers that are holding onto these vehicles for significantly over MSRP will be forced to sell cheaper or lose their ass on them. Regardless of whether the public can afford the cars or not - its starting to be a buyers market and not a sellers market - just check out Vloggers like Lucky Lopez or Your Auto Advocate who have been reporting a lot of these things - not to over exaggerate but the banks will be looking for another bailout soon enough and the raising of interest rates isn’t going to help their situation.

Anyway - off the soapbox haha

I'm just a guy on the Internet to you but I would be careful sourcing my information from click bait sources.

To be fair to those Vloggers I never click on their videos so in this response to you post. I'm going off what you said.


Https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-i... repossession volumes at,of 2.9% seen in 2019.

TL;DR

- Defaults and repossessions are up.
- By percentage they are still historically low
- Mostly impacted by sub prime

"These factors suggest that loan defaults and repossessions are likely to remain well below historic norms, even though volumes are growing as we see some attributes of the auto market normalize. Bottom line, there is no repo crisis. Repo volumes will likely be below normal for the next several years, contributing to a very supply-constrained wholesale vehicle market."

I'll add my two cents.

The Fed is doing to do it's best to cool down the market and it will have an impact on slowing the sale of new cars.

However automakers & dealers are enjoying "made to order" market and I think they will look to not return to 2019 levels of "build it and figure out how to sell it later."

I will be curious to know how manufacturers handle this. The electrification of cars. Fleet sales and changes in market share.

 

[Ulti-Resis]

They'll handle it the same way they handle it in the UK. The cars will be made when ordered and you wait for it to be delivered to the dealer. Everything is done to your chosen spec, colour, optional extras etc. Just the way it should be done.

 

[citrus]

They'll handle it the same way they handle it in the UK. The cars will be made when ordered and you wait for it to be delivered to the dealer. Everything is done to your chosen spec, colour, optional extras etc. Just the way it should be done.

Just hope they'll keep demonstrators on hand, which not many seem to do now.

Sponsored