DE5 guy seeking suspension help!

[B Trip]

Hey everyone,

This is essentially a repost from the Integra forums, but I figured I might get more help here.

I've been struggling with significant understeer on track with my Type S, especially when pushing it hard in corners. It's been affecting the driving experience and killing apex speed, and I was hoping to get some advice from the community on how to dial it out.

I am on RT660s (I know there are better tires) with Phearable tune so I’m pushing close to 380HP and 400TQ to the wheels, which is exacerbating the grip issue.

Being early on in my mod journey, I’ve been running the stock alignment at the track (pins pulled), but just installed whiteline lower ball joints set to max camber (yet to track the alignment). Also went with their 22mm rear sway bar set to max stiffness. There are stiffer bars but I want the car to be as planted and neutral handling as possible. The last thing I need is to get lift of oversteer on a 100+mph turn. (See pointbypatrol’s wreck on YouTube)

Does anyone have recommendations for specific camber or toe settings that have worked well to reduce the understeer? Gaining a lot more negative camber up front and adjusting the rear as well to balance things out should help, but I'd love to hear what setups have worked for you.

For those who've played around with the suspension, what changes have you found effective in reducing understeer and improve overall corner grip? I've heard mixed things about stiffening the front sway bar, or adding a strut tower bar.

FL5 Type R Damper Module Swap???

I've thought a bit about swapping the damper module with the FL5’s setup to help dial out understeer. Street comfort is not a concern.. Has anyone with a DE5 here done this swap? Can anyone who has driven both attest to the difference ON TRACK between the two cars?? If so, How much of a difference does it make in handling and reducing understeer? I know the FL5 came with stiffer front springs (5.0kg vs 4.5) but Honda/Acura has decided to change both front spring rates to 4.7. I plan on doing the springs eventually, but not sure how much spring rate is ideal for the track and for the stock damper system. Coilovers are not an option for me at this point!

I’m really interested in hearing what’s worked for others and any specific advice you might have. Whether it's alignment, suspension tweaks, or more substantial mods like lowering springs or if you really need to go with coilovers.. I'd love to know what you recommend to make the Type S handle better.

Thanks in advance for your help!

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[Xian]

What part of the corner are you having problems with understeer? Any video available where we can see steering input and throttle/brake input data?

 

[simpleisbest]

Did you get an alignment after pulling your pins and before tracking the car?

 

[Gernett]

Have you turned off VSA fully? That helped me alot with understeering

 

[Motpeds]

Have you turned off VSA fully? That helped me alot with understeering

I wonder if the pedal dance works on the ITS.

 

[Gernett]

I wonder if the pedal dance works on the ITS.

it does. I use it. it even works on aspec and a lot of other honda acura products

 

[B Trip]

[/QUOTE]

Did you get an alignment after pulling your pins and before tracking the car?

Yes. I’m getting the ball joints done today and going with max setting with some toe out.

don’t have the rear camber arms yet so I’ll be interested as to how the car reacts to an aggressive front camber paired with the stock rear setting

Have you turned off VSA fully? That helped me alot with understeering

I’ve tried on and off. Doesn’t affect the front grip on corner exit

What part of the corner are you having problems with understeer? Any video available where we can see steering input and throttle/brake input data?

High speed entry, and exiting at all speeds. I use a Catalyst so no OBD data to share





VIR was about 50° so tires overheating wasn’t an issue. This lap I was 32psi hot. Understeer wasn’t so bad.

At Pocono it was about 75° I had to run really low pressure to get the grip to do the lap time I did (28 hot) and the tires were only good for about 2 laps before overheating. As you can imagine my sidewalls were not happy about that.

VIR was my first time on a track ever, Pocono was my 3rd. New to this, so any comments or critiques are appreciated. Really need to dial out that understeer tho. I imagine springs will help immensely.

 

[PointByPatrol]

You can try to add a little bit of toe out in the front, but I don't think you'll feel a huge difference. How many degrees of camber are you able to pull in the front? You can use a tire pyrometer to help you set camber for a specific track, but you'd need a buddy that could run out in the pits to get the temperatures after a few laps. Also, I'd recommend not going full stiff on the rear bar. If it's super stiff it can cause some pretty scary snap or lift off oversteer.

 

[B Trip]

You can try to add a little bit of toe out in the front, but I don't think you'll feel a huge difference. How many degrees of camber are you able to pull in the front? You can use a tire pyrometer to help you set camber for a specific track, but you'd need a buddy that could run out in the pits to get the temperatures after a few laps. Also, I'd recommend not going full stiff on the rear bar. If it's super stiff it can cause some pretty scary snap or lift off oversteer.

i maxed out the ball joint setting. It’s on the alignment machine as I type this. -4°!

I got the Whiteline 22mm bar. Set to its least stiff it feels stock, so I upped it to full stiff. It helps out with rotation just enough to not cause any aggressive oversteer. I chose not to do the 25 or 26mm options for that very reason. What rear bar were you running when you had your wreck if you don’t mind sharing?

 

[simpleisbest]

If you are staying with stock suspension, you could try to stagger your tire pressures a bit and add a bit more psi the rear to help a little.

Does the DE5 have a +R mode? On the CTR, +R mode disables all traction control other than Agility Assist, iirc.

 

[PointByPatrol]

i maxed out the ball joint setting. It’s on the alignment machine as I type this. -4°!

I got the Whiteline 22mm bar. Set to its least stiff it feels stock, so I upped it to full stiff. It helps out with rotation just enough to not cause any aggressive oversteer. I chose not to do the 25 or 26mm options for that very reason. What rear bar were you running when you had your wreck if you don’t mind sharing?

-4 is likely too much. 3.2-3.5 would likely be ideal for a track like VIR. When I crashed I was on completely stock suspension with only the front camber pins pulled, which would result in roughly 2.3-3.5 degrees of negative camber in the front. 3.2-3.5 with a touch of toe out in the front will improve straight line acceleration, and help mitigate understeer. If you still experience unwanted understeer I'd go next to your tire pressures. Just make small incremental changes. On my FK8 I had the complete RV6 suit front and rear with my rear sway set in the middle setting. When the tires were cold the car would lose it's ass constantly.

My accident was entirely my fault. I unloaded the car at the crest of a hill, and bye bye went the rear end. At VIR I only feel annoying understeer in turn 1, turn 5b, turn 12, and turn 14, but typically utilize scrub steer to fight the car where I need it to go, this is at the expense of keeping the tires in a happy heat range. There are a few front wheel drive tricks that can be utilized at VIR that improve lap times significantly, even with annoying understeer that would ultimately result in a 2 second pickup over the lap that you posted above in this thread.

 

[B Trip]

If you are staying with stock suspension, you could try to stagger your tire pressures a bit and add a bit more psi the rear to help a little.

Does the DE5 have a +R mode? On the CTR, +R mode disables all traction control other than Agility Assist, iirc.

We don’t have a the 10 second VSA press setting in +r like you guys

 

[NoelPR]

If you are staying with stock suspension, you could try to stagger your tire pressures a bit and add a bit more psi the rear to help a little.

Does the DE5 have a +R mode? On the CTR, +R mode disables all traction control other than Agility Assist, iirc.

No, you have to do the pedal dance for that.

 

[simpleisbest]

No, you have to do the pedal dance for that.

Pedal dance turns off agility assist, iirc.
Agility assist helps a ton with turn in, but can be tough on rear pads for track use.

 

[B Trip]

-4 is likely too much. 3.2-3.5 would likely be ideal for a track like VIR. When I crashed I was on completely stock suspension with only the front camber pins pulled, which would result in roughly 2.3-3.5 degrees of negative camber in the front. 3.2-3.5 with a touch of toe out in the front will improve straight line acceleration, and help mitigate understeer. If you still experience unwanted understeer I'd go next to your tire pressures. Just make small incremental changes. On my FK8 I had the complete RV6 suit front and rear with my rear sway set in the middle setting. When the tires were cold the car would lose it's ass constantly.

My accident was entirely my fault. I unloaded the car at the crest of a hill, and bye bye went the rear end. At VIR I only feel annoying understeer in turn 1, turn 5b, turn 12, and turn 14, but typically utilize scrub steer to fight the car where I need it to go, this is at the expense of keeping the tires in a happy heat range. There are a few front wheel drive tricks that can be utilized at VIR that improve lap times significantly, even with annoying understeer that would ultimately result in a 2 second pickup over the lap that you posted above in this thread.

I think that your wreck was the week after I was there. That spot on the track in particular worried me while driving. I mentioned it to a couple people that weekend. We had a 20-30 mph sustained headwind on the back straight that say so that affected lap time, and I lifted into turn 1 and into 3 due to the traffic.

I’ve tried a lot of pressure settings. Without the alignment I needed to run low up front for peak grip but i rolled over big time. Had the tires remounted today. Hopefully the new camber will allow me to run a low pressure and not ruin the tires. About to hit the road for Mid-Ohio this weekend With the new setup so I’ll report back on how it feels!

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