CIVICXI *NOVICE* Track Thread!

[johnloov]

NO.
It was Throttle lift oversteer.

Really, because I was off the throttle for 6 seconds before the spin.

So coasting down a hill with no throttle for 6 seconds no brake will spin a car?

I did the same turn like all day, and it didn't spin me out

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[PointByPatrol]

@PointByPatrol
Check it - I was not even pushing it - last lap of the day - exact same lap over and over - I pit in, and just wanted to see what R+ Long press does, it grabbed my rear brakes, same exact lap all day I've been doing pedal dance.

Check this - what happened here? I know for a fact AHA ( R+ Long Press ) spun me around, I wasn't even going agressive. No lit off oversteer, no gas nothing, just coasting.

Are you typically off throttle there? Were you off throttle there with the pedal dance on your earlier laps?

 

[BigBird]

Really, because I was off the throttle for 6 seconds before the spin.

So coasting down a hill with no throttle for 6 seconds no brake will spin a car?

I did the same turn like all day, and it didn't spin me out

I was talking about PBP
------------------------
for you:
off-throttle, down hill sounds like a light rear and with some steering angle and add in if the rear tires were slick (cold/hot, etc), then could definitely see it

 

[johnloov]

Are you typically off throttle there? Were you off throttle there with the pedal dance on your earlier laps?

Let me get some side by side video. I know what I felt. I'm on track 2x a month. If I was on throttle for sure AHA would not have spun me out. My understanding is when you have AHA ( Long press R+ ) the throttle acts as understeer and off throttle it acts as over steer and uses the brakes. So when I'm coasting down the hill, the AHA is braking the back to give me more steering input, which I didn't need. I was just rolling down the hill here.

 

[BigBird]

Let me get some side by side video. I know what I felt. I'm on track 2x a month. If I was on throttle for sure AHA would not have spun me out. My understanding is when you have AHA ( Long press R+ ) the throttle acts as understeer and off throttle it acts as over steer and uses the brakes. So when I'm coasting down the hill, the AHA is braking the back to give me more steering input, which I didn't need. I was just rolling down the hill here.

AHA from my understanding only works on the inside front tire

 

[johnloov]

AHA from my understanding only works on the inside front tire

It's not true - actually this is what we thought it uses all 4 brakes. Here is a precise conclusive understanding of it.

https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threa...r-long-press-and-experience.55188/post-918545

It'

 

[PointByPatrol]

What wheel size and tire were you on? I noticed the G-meter hitting 1.3 g's right before the spin took place. You were coasting down a hill initially, but you spun at the crest of a hill that you were ascending. I'm fairly certain AHA only has an effect on the front brakes. I had something weird like this happen to me before, but it only resulted in me spinning off into the grass, and hitting nothing. In that scenario I believe I ran through coolant, which I could not see on the track surface.

I also listened closely to the sound of the tires, and to me it sounded like it was the rear tires that were making the squealing sound. You can hear them start to squeal before they let go entirely. Possible that they were greasy too depending on how hard you were hitting the track prior to slowing down to head to the pits.

I'm inclined to say that you experienced lift off oversteer even though you were coasting at the time. Basically the same exact thing that happened to me just at a lower rate of speed. Judging by all the tire marks there, I would hazard to say that this particular corner is extremely tricky.

 

[johnloov]

What wheel size and tire were you on? I noticed the G-meter hitting 1.3 g's right before the spin took place. You were coasting down a hill initially, but you spun at the crest of a hill that you were ascending. I'm fairly certain AHA only has an effect on the front brakes. I had something weird like this happen to me before, but it only resulted in me spinning off into the grass, and hitting nothing. In that scenario I believe I ran through coolant, which I could not see on the track surface.

For sure watch this video - it's using all 4 brakes - proven - my friends also proved it on track - they both have track records at Laguna


He explains it in detail -

 

[PointByPatrol]

For sure watch this video - it's using all 4 brakes - proven - my friends also proved it on track - they both have track records at Laguna


He explains it in detail -

I'll watch it in a few. I added a few more thoughts to my prior response.

 

[PointByPatrol]

AHA from my understanding only works on the inside front tire

I am also seeing this and reading this on the Honda website. Love how they spelled "braking" wrong.

 

[BigBird]

I am also seeing this and reading this on the Honda website. Love how they spelled "braking" wrong.

That's how you know it was from Japan ?

 

[johnloov]

Here is the play by play comparison. Pedal Dance On Left - AHA ( Long Press +R ) on right

I was chasing down the Mclaren driving more aggressively with pedal dance on the left.

It's almost identical, I even have more of an aggressive steering angle with pedal dance vs AHA ( R+ long press )

If I had gassed on AHA ( +R Long Press ) the car would have been fine - It was too aggressive for me as the gas pedal is connected to torque vectoring using brakes. Its braking rear to turn in. That caught me off guard as I was used to the natural dynamics of full pedal dance.

 

[PointByPatrol]

Here is the play by play comparison. Pedal Dance On Left - AHA ( Long Press +R ) on right

I was chasing down the Mclaren driving more aggressively with pedal dance on the left.

It's almost identical, I even have more of an aggressive steering angle with Long Press vs AHA ( R+ long press )

If I had gassed on AHA ( +R Long Press ) the car would have been fine - It was too aggressive for me as the gas pedal is connected to torque vectoring using brakes. Its braking rear to turn in. That caught me off guard as I was used to the natural dynamics of full pedal dance.

I have analyzed these slides and have an opinion, but had a few questions.

1. What did it feel like when it happened?
2. Tire and wheel combination?
3. How many laps had you completed before it happened? (what were your lap times?)

 

[johnloov]

I have analyzed these slides and have an opinion, but had a few questions.

1. What did it feel like when it
happened?
It felt like day and night compared to my previous laps, but the rear just caught. I knew it was aha, that touched my rear brakes. It felt like someone independently touched my brakes in rear without my permission!
I was coasting for 6 seconds no throttle no braking, it felt like the car touched my rear brakes as I turned in and no throttle no braking. My understanding is this is exactly what AHA does it uses the throttle pedal to steer trying to emulate a rear wheel drive car.

2. Tire and wheel combination?
stock tires 4s rims - camber pins out. 2mm toe out total. ~38 psi hot front and 35 hot rear nitrogen filled ( helped stability of tire performance )

3. How many laps had you completed before it happened? (what were your lap times?) lap times no traffic ~1.47,1.48, 1.49 ~ 7 laps

Pulled into pits engaged long press / base line was all day pedal dance

then spun it, pitted again - I want to see what the difference was right away while car was hot tires were hot

back to pedal Dance ran it again….

No spin……

I’ll be back at Laguna Seca in 2 days. Will test again and again. I feel more natural with pedal dance, even though I understand a AHA can make you faster. I currently have no problems with understeer in my car so I don’t understand why I need it.

 

[Rexpelagi]

Anyone tried R5s in front and R5s in rear on track?

Very curious if anyone’s tried both R5 front R3 rear vs R5 front/rear on track and what they experienced.

Feel like the fronts are abs locking faster than rear, and wondering if R5 both front and rear is better for track

I run R5 front/rear and I haven't observed any issues with the R5 - like @PointByPatrol I haven't had the smearing issue others have had. I did not bother trying the R5 front/R3 rear that some run.

I am trying EBC RPX fronts whenever these wear out just to try something different, but TBD if they are better.

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