C&D Lightning Lap 2024: The Hottest Cars on America's Toughest Track

[wrxdev13]

The ITS with Cup2s could get closer to the CTR time in the context of similar weather, same driver, etc. and other factors. I'm might impressed with the Lucid and the Dark Horse.

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[Cornercarver]

Tires are for sure the dirty 'secret' of lap times.

If there is any doubt, how else do you explain an equal or better lap time for a 2016 CTR than some earlier Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, even a Pagani(?!) at the 'Ring?

Yes, Honda is brilliant. But tire tech took some huge leaps, and the results bear that out.

There is no perfect comparison test. Weather, track conditions, driver -even the same driver is still human, etc.

But makes for some fun reading and discussions.

 

[Noize]

Finally a fast EV on track.

That Subaru is nuts.

And there are a couple butthurt Type S owners in this thread. Lol. They said the CTR would only be a few tenths faster on the same tire. But the seats and lack of pedal dance requirement make that (few tenths) difference.

That time is exactly what it should be. Get some V730s, and these cars will fly.

 

[RacingManiac]

I dunno how impressive the Dark Horse time is in the context of a Z/28 on Trofeo R tire went faster back in 2015....different year and all that but still. But it is the only Pony car left....unless you count a CT5V Blackwing also went faster last year without having cup tires...

Lightning lap has always been about all "performance option" package cars, sometimes its kinda meaningless since sure Cup 2 might be "optional" for FL5 in the sense I guess there is a Honda P/N you can order. But one who will buy that from the dealer and two, who actually orders a Type R unless you are some influencer(cough Savagegeese). And I feel like in the recent years they've been getting harder to get some cars with the right OE tires(BMW especially). But wrangling a dozen cars to show up at the same time is probably a project in the best of years, they are certainly trying....M2 in this case too is a sunroof car so probably not the ideal track spec neither. Might just be how attentive or "give a shit" the OEM press fleet coordinators are.

Lucid is impressive, sure its 1000 horses but for its weight and how undertired relative to that weight, the time seems pretty good if not somewhat one dimension. But keeping all that weight in check and get all of its systems to work cohesively is pretty impressive, especially compare to EV6 in the same test.

 

[modern_sports_car]

Smart that they don’t offer the Type S with Cup 2s. Otherwise I think there would be a very real possibility of the Type S being faster than the Type R at this track.

Eh, not sure. Guess it’s possible, but.

 

[modern_sports_car]

Finally a fast EV on track.

That Subaru is nuts.

And there are a couple butthurt Type S owners in this thread. Lol. They said the CTR would only be a few tenths faster on the same tire. But the seats and lack of pedal dance requirement make that (few tenths) difference.

That time is exactly what it should be. Get some V730s, and these cars will fly.

Bother wonderful cars—so many on that list. Great for bench racing.

 

[spectre186]

Eh, not sure. Guess it’s possible, but.

Im mainly going off of the unofficial comparison @savagegeese did. The lap times were very close and the ITS makes noticeably more power. With its extra compliance it hops curbs better too. Hopefully someone does a head to head comparison on a road course soon. Same tires is a must.

 

[modern_sports_car]

I agree, just using the FK8 time vs the IST time as a kind of basis (.3 faster, which may as well be the same considering all of the variables.

 

[Cornercarver]

So would everyone feel better if Mark of Savage Geese paid a big ADM on his FL5? Really?
Wow.

I have enjoyed and learned a lot from his blog - just as I have from the other quality auto reviewers on You Tube.
Think of his getting an FL5 at MSRP as a thank you for the love note to enthusiasts that is Savage Geese.

 

[spectre186]

I love savagegeese. By far my favorite car channel on YouTube. I could care less if they paid a markup or not!

 

[Gansan]

Yeah it's a sort of strange position that C&D takes where they will only permit cars to use tires that are theoretically "available OEM"... and they end up shooting themselves in the foot sometimes like they did with the M3 CS where they couldn't even get the right tires in time for the event. The Type R is "available" with Cup2s... but what does that really mean??? I'm certain that I could ask my Acura dealer to slap Cup2s on my ITS. Please tell me how that's different from what I'd do had I bought a CTR... and while they clearly explain this in the article and video, they still lean in heavily with the inference that the ITS is a slower car than the CTR around that track. They basically conclude that tires are a part of the OEM package, and that's not necessarily a fair assessment IMO.

To give Honda some credit though, they did work with Michelin to make a specific H0 version of the Cup 2 for the CTR. According to an interview with a Michelin engineer, this carcass is optimized for front wheel drive, which the regular Cup 2 is not. Perhaps they should have made it an official offering for the ITS, in which case C&D would have used it.

 

[Clark_Kent]

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a63689417/lightning-lap-2025/

2025 Lightning Lap was posted recently. A few vehicles of note:

• They ran the Elantra N again with fresh tires this time out. Not much difference and about as slow as expected. Still don't see how some people argue it's a formidable foe of the FL5
• The Miata ran in this year's race, beyond slow. I'm probably the only person here who doesn't get the draw of this car.
• The CT5-V BW is an absolute bruiser. Sub 2:50s is moving even on R-comps.
• 190 mph in the esses for the Ford Performance F-150 Lightning SuperTruck = ?

 

[Rhorn]

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a63689417/lightning-lap-2025/

2025 Lightning Lap was posted recently. A few vehicles of note:

• They ran the Elantra N again with fresh tires this time out. Not much difference and about as slow as expected. Still don't see how some people argue it's a formidable foe of the FL5
• The Miata ran in this year's race, beyond slow. I'm probably only person here who doesn't get the draw of this car.
• The CT5-V BW is an absolute bruiser. Sub 2:50s is moving even on R-comps.
• 190 mph in the esses for the Ford Performance F-150 Lightning SuperTruck = ?

The draw of the Miata is that its quite literally one of the best track cars you can buy. The only car really comparable to it is the GR86/BRZ. Sure they don't have the same cool factor as something like the CTR, Corvette or a Porsche but it costs so little to track them, and the consumables have such a longer life.

The chassis is balanced and the engine doesn't have the same oil starvation issues that happens in the GR86/BRZ. So its a solid package, and a perfect car to learn on, plus the OEM is good with covering warranties for track use. Everyone wants a Ferrai/McLaren/Porsche but the reality is its not sustainable to track those often unless you have deep pockets. Most people downgrade because of cost and they want more track time. I'd get one but I'm too tall and don't want be smushed so I'm getting a BRZ. Im now realizing that I want a car that I can track 12/days a year vs 6 days/year.

 

[optronix]

As I said last year, these lightning lap events are not as useful for actual data as people may want to believe. But hey, knock yourself out. It's en vogue these days to draw conclusions from whatever data you can compile, regardless of the validity of the source. They're at least trying to be semi-scientific... but this is like most news sources. Primarily for entertainment.

And I agree re: draw of the Miata. It's fun. Not all of us are so concerned about where a car lands on a particular leaderboard on any given day... and even for those who are, they've probably been humiliated by a Miata at one point or another anyway.

 

[svvitch]

As I said last year, these lightning lap events are not as useful for actual data as people may want to believe. But hey, knock yourself out. It's en vogue these days to draw conclusions from whatever data you can compile, regardless of the validity of the source. They're at least trying to be semi-scientific... but this is like most news sources. Primarily for entertainment.

And I agree re: draw of the Miata. It's fun. Not all of us are so concerned about where a car lands on a particular leaderboard on any given day... and even for those who are, they've probably been humiliated by a Miata at one point or another anyway.

agree, I watch for entertainment. It's normally a good collection of fun cars doing fun things

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