Type R Track Times Pedal Dance vs. Type R+ Long Press and Experience

[johnloov]

ily brake/suspension modded FL5, took my advice - he slightly toed out, and instantly gained 1 second on track, and I could hear the brakes work

Excellent let me check tire wear. Even though I’m not too concerned with tire wear, if I have higher performance on track. But for sure good to know. Thanks!

Sponsored

 

[johnloov]

Anyone tried nitrogen to control the tire pressure fluctuations on track on the 4s?

I’m going to experiment with this next time. I did mark my tires to get the most optimal pressure to avoid rollover, but the Delta between cold and hot temps is too wide at least with normal compressed air.

I now have filled the tires with nitrogen and did many cycles to get as much air out as possible, and will try this on track next Saturday.

 

[BuntaTypeR]

Melting rear pads in +R with TC Off + VSA Off is a Myth that needs to stop being pushed.

You do NOT need to do the pedal dance in +R to avoid melting rear pads. If you are running in Individual, entirely different story - and if so, you need to caveat that. If they are stock pads that are not designed for the temperature - that should also be caveated.

I have about ~400 laps on a USED set of CSG CE1 that had 4 days with a driver using VSA on. I used VSA for 3 sessions at one track because I need comfort suspension and didn't bother with the pedal dance, and I've only run 2 sessions in pedal dance.

I have to agree with this comment. I haven’t noticed excessive wear on my rear brake pads, even with everything enabled (+R mode with TC and VSA). When I spoke with Pagid brake engineers, they explained that the front brakes handle 70-90% of the braking workload.

It depends on your skill level, temperature, track layout, modifications, experience, and how much risk you're willing to take. I wouldn’t recommend doing the pedal dance unless you’re prepared to handle potential oversteer and the possibility of damaging or totaling your car. I experienced this firsthand at the track last weekend, on my second lap, I got overconfident, and the rear swung out three times in separate turns. Thankfully, the car saved me. Always drive within the limits of what you’re willing and able to risk.

 

[Club Version]

Melting rear pads in +R with TC Off + VSA Off is a Myth that needs to stop being pushed.

You do NOT need to do the pedal dance in +R to avoid melting rear pads. If you are running in Individual, entirely different story - and if so, you need to caveat that. If they are stock pads that are not designed for the temperature - that should also be caveated.

I have about ~400 laps on a USED set of CSG CE1 that had 4 days with a driver using VSA on. I used VSA for 3 sessions at one track because I need comfort suspension and didn't bother with the pedal dance, and I've only run 2 sessions in pedal dance.

I’m happy with doing the pedal dance. I honestly think it comes down to driver level as well.

Here’s some proof of overheating brakes due to the VSA.

 

[J1Avs]

I’m happy with doing the pedal dance. I honestly think it comes down to driver level as well.

Here’s some proof of overheating brakes due to the VSA.

Please re-read -- I NEVER stated to use VSA, nor that it does not have an effect on the rear pads. I said AHA does not have the effect on the rear pads.

To quote:
"Melting rear pads in +R with TC Off + VSA Off is a Myth that needs to stop being pushed."

To recap:

1) +R with VSA OFF + TC OFF -- NO Effect on Rear Pads
2) Individual + PEDAL DANCE - NO Effect on Rear Pads
3) Any Mode + TC OFF/ON + VSA ON - LOTS of Effect on Rear Pads

Please don't try and use Pedal Dance as a flex for driver level . You are welcome to check my experience and achievements to validate my input.

 

[J1Avs]

I have to agree with this comment. I haven’t noticed excessive wear on my rear brake pads, even with everything enabled (+R mode with TC and VSA). When I spoke with Pagid brake engineers, they explained that the front brakes handle 70-90% of the braking workload.

It depends on your skill level, temperature, track layout, modifications, experience, and how much risk you're willing to take. I wouldn’t recommend doing the pedal dance unless you’re prepared to handle potential oversteer and the possibility of damaging or totaling your car. I experienced this firsthand at the track last weekend, on my second lap, I got overconfident, and the rear swung out three times in separate turns. Thankfully, the car saved me. Always drive within the limits of what you’re willing and able to risk.

You will eventually see more aggressive wear in the rear with VSA on, as it uses the rear brakes on its engagement.

If you run the car in +R with Long Hold (TC Off/VSA Off), all Pedal Dance is doing is disabling AHA, which helps the car rotate -- if anything, it induces more wheel spin and push. If you run the car in Individual, then it's disabling TC, VSA, and AHA.

Disabling TC and VSA if more likely what is catching you off guard. Learn the car and slowly start disabling them. If you are getting massive oversteer incidents, you are more than likely lifting too aggressively at the wrong times.

 

[Club Version]

Please re-read -- I NEVER stated to use VSA, and that it does not have an effect on the rear pads. I said AHA does not have the effect on the rear pads.

To quote:
"Melting rear pads in +R with TC Off + VSA Off is a Myth that needs to stop being pushed."

To recap:

1) +R with VSA OFF + TC OFF -- NO Effect on Rear Pads
2) Individual + PEDAL DANCE - NO Effect on Rear Pads
3) Any Mode + TC OFF/ON + VSA ON - LOTS of Effect on Rear Pads

Please don't try and use Pedal Dance as a flex for driver level . You are welcome to check my experience and achievements to validate my input.

Not trying to flex, just don’t like how modern cars have safety systems working in the background.

The driver skill comment is in regards to how someone with more confidence will push the car harder and leave things on in the background without noticing, and in turn will run into issues with the braking system. I think that’s what’s causing the misconception.

Our cars are not the only ones in the market that have these issues, it’s just how the auto industry is now.

 

[J1Avs]

Not trying to flex, just don’t like how modern cars have safety systems working in the background.

The driver skill comment is in regards to how someone with more confidence will push the car harder and leave things on in the background without noticing, and in turn will run into issues with the braking system. I think that’s what’s causing the misconception.

Our cars are not the only ones in the market that have these issues, it’s just how the auto industry is now.

What I keep trying to say is that AHA is NOT a safety system. It makes the car rotate and is designed to make the car faster.

It does not lead to issues in the braking system -- and I have the proven and consistent data to prove it.

 

[Club Version]

What I keep trying to say is that AHA is NOT a safety system. It makes the car rotate and is designed to make the car faster.

It does not lead to issues in the braking system -- and I have the proven and consistent data to prove it.

Gotta try it then, I’ve never used it.

 

[BigBird]

Not trying to flex, just don’t like how modern cars have safety systems working in the background.

The driver skill comment is in regards to how someone with more confidence will push the car harder and leave things on in the background without noticing, and in turn will run into issues with the braking system. I think that’s what’s causing the misconception.

Our cars are not the only ones in the market that have these issues, it’s just how the auto industry is now.

@J1Avs has lap records on different platforms across the country. Right now he has the FWD lap record at the Ridge. When he was on the East Coast, he was crushing multiple tracks out here.

But yeah +R with long press is everything off except High Speed, and that's not saving you on a off, if anything it's trying to help you go faster

I personally don't like +R mode because it's overly stiff to me, but I've noticed in +R mode it allows quite a bit of rear to step out with even all the nannies on. Very interesting.

Now if Honda allowed us to like turn TC off while driving that would be nice.

 

[johnloov]

Finished Many Many back to back laps at Laguna Seca Today - Tried every setting - and was lucky the track was empty at the end of the day so I pitted in every other lap - changed the settings and ran out for another time.

1) Type R on track - everything on == Will cook your brakes - brakes smells like hell
2) Type R Long Press ( AHA ) == Does help turn the car in harder - brakes smell less
3) Peddle Dance == Feels more natural - brakes smell the least

AHA does turn in the car a lot more than Pedal Dance.

My lap times with AHA on vs. FULL OFF (Pedal Dance ) were very similar maybe because I have 5mm toe out which helps me turn in much easier than before when it was stock -- When I was at toe zero and pedal dance it was very hard to turn - For sure AHA does really turn in harder beyond what the car can naturally do.

AHA or FULL OFF - I prefer these terms moving forward



ps..... Filling my tires with nitrogen did help stabilize my Pilot 4S's on track by ~2-3psi
( this is probably for another discussion... if you're running race tires, you're probably all good.. Ps4... they change a lot )

but.. to do it right... you really need to cycle many inflate/deflates with nitrogen to get the tire to the highest percentage as possible to see any real positive effects. I deflated inflated each tire 5 times completely.

Usually after 3-5 lap the tires would go from 34 cold to 41-42psi hot, and today it went to 38-39max -- I was able to run many more laps consistently.

 

[BigBird]

Here's a great test for rear pad use

Throw some OEM pads in the front And some noisy race pads in the rear. You can hear when they activate and that would be an indicator of how much they are being used

Right now I have OEM fronts and P3 rear and the rears make some noise on the street. So I was like on track that would be an easy way to see this rear pad behavior

 

[MooMoo]

What I keep trying to say is that AHA is NOT a safety system. It makes the car rotate and is designed to make the car faster.

It does not lead to issues in the braking system -- and I have the proven and consistent data to prove it.

I understand what you mean by not being a safety system but in a way it kind of is



On oversteer AHA will bring car back to intended path.

 

[J1Avs]

I understand what you mean by not being a safety system but in a way it kind of is



On oversteer AHA will bring car back to intended path.

It's a torque vectoring system to maximize cornering. It's absolutely not catching you on a massive oversteer moment. AHA for the CTR is also specifically tuned for performance driving, and not the OTS Honda AHA solution.

 

[johnloov]

Here is the absolute best conclusive explanation of AHA on the type R. It is using all 4 brakes to turn the car and it will eat brakes faster. It does use the rear brakes to lift off oversteer like a rear wheel drive car. It does use the front brakes if you over drive the front to help the diff and that will also eat more brakes and tires.



I only wish he did some laps with it completely off for comparison.

Seems like it should produce faster lap times.

Sponsored