Civic Type R vs. Ford GT

[m3bs]

I recently had the opportunity to see several pristine 2005/6 Ford GTs in a private collection. That got me thinking about the performance capabilities of those cars vs our CTR, so I pulled up the C&D Lightning Lap results. Not in the same league, right? Think again…

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[ctechauto]

Tire tech has come a long way in the last 20 years. Throw some equivalent PS4S (since they came on the CTR) on the GT and watch that time drop 5 seconds easily

 

[AZCWTypeR]

I crossed shopped a new 5.0 Mustang vs. the CTR. Yes the 480hp V8 is awesome, but the Mustang needed another $15k+ in options to get better tires, wheels, brakes, suspension, and seats. That put it above $60k, even with an my "friends and family" discount code.

Also, the Mustang back seats are near useless if you get Recaro type front seats, and I occassionally pickup family at the airport (over an hour away).

 

[Clark_Kent]

The comparison is a myopic view of performance. Technology has come a long way in the nearly 20 years between the models. And performance is more than lap times, 0-60, and 1/4 miles times. The fastest cars are rarely the "best" cars. I think many here can agree what's more important than the times is the psychological piece. How does the car make you feel? What are you experiencing when you drive the car, or hear it, or look at it? Transmission, arrangement of the pedal box, throttle tip-in, seat position, seats, power delivery, powerband, steering, visibility out of the car, engine sound, exhaust sound, and the list goes on.

 

[MooMoo]

what track is this on cuz there are so many cars on there that should be faster than the type R on really every single track (m2 comp, supra, gt500, m4, ect...).


edit- oh its a VIR, yeah no way a m2 comp, m4, ect are gonna be slower than a type R

 

[m3bs]

The test results are what they are, and reflect the as-delivered configuration of the cars at the time. As mentioned, tires have improved, along with suspension tech, etc. That was my point in posting the comparison, to show how far performance cars have come in what seems like just a few years. In 2005, who would have believed a supercharged V8 Supercar would ever be outrun on a race track by a 4-cylinder Honda, let alone a 3-cylinder Corolla?

The C&D testing is subject to many variables, like weather, track condition, multiple drivers, etc. which can affect the results, but it makes for an interesting comparison tool. I don’t care for the Grand course, personally, but it does tend to be an equalizer that gives the high HP cars less of an advantage.

To me, lap times are the ultimate measure of performance. There are plenty of cars that are faster in a straight line, but can’t put together a fast lap.

 

[MooMoo]

yeah driver/weather makes a huge difference for sure, tire too and I know the M2 came on super sports vs ps4s which are much superior tires but I still find it hard to believe with the same driver that the type R woulda been that much faster... then again who knows what driver drove both or conditions.

As far as grand course, it looks awesome to me, I would love to try it sometime and I think I would enjoy it more. Definitely equals things more on less hp cars without the back straight.

 

[CR-X]

On modern tires a 22 year old Carrera GT lapped the Ring 16 seconds faster. Id imagine a Ford GT on the same tire would be much faster than a CTR.

 

[Zpeedster M]

Another apples to orange comparison

 

[zumbooruk]

not that it matters, since I agree with

The comparison is a myopic view of performance. Technology has come a long way in the nearly 20 years between the models. And performance is more than lap times, 0-60, and 1/4 miles times. The fastest cars are rarely the "best" cars. I think many here can agree what's more important than the times is the psychological piece. How does the car make you feel? What are you experiencing when you drive the car, or hear it, or look at it? Transmission, arrangement of the pedal box, throttle tip-in, seat position, seats, power delivery, powerband, steering, visibility out of the car, engine sound, exhaust sound, and the list goes on.

the 2017 Ford GT is #32

there are other modern cars faster than the CTR, some of which I looked at before buying my FL5 (RS3, M3, CT4-V Blackwing)

and the ITS is #180 (?)

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23319884/lightning-lap-times-historical-data/

 

[StingertimeNC]

ITS was driven by a different driver, and was running on PS4S instead of Sport cup 2's. Not to mention different day and likely under slightly different conditions. Otherwise they run within 1 second of each other on a 4 mile track. (also the CTR was driven in "comfort mode" so suspension differences wouldn't have accounted for any time.) I really wish they at least used the same driver, even if the tires were different.

 

[optronix]

ITS was driven by a different driver, and was running on PS4S instead of Sport cup 2's. Not to mention different day and likely under slightly different conditions. Otherwise they run within 1 second of each other on a 4 mile track. (also the CTR was driven in "comfort mode" so suspension differences wouldn't have accounted for any time.) I really wish they at least used the same driver, even if the tires were different.

This right here. For whatever reason people continuously forget to mention (or look for) what tires the car is on. Tires account for substantially higher cornering speed, and that applies to every single corner on a long road coarse. It adds up.

It's all very simple, and why data is useless without CONTEXT.

That said it is still impressive what modern cars are capable of. Yet another reason after owning several of these "higher end" sports cars I've circled back around to the realization that for the street, this platform does really deliver everything I could ask for in a car. Sure there's the "theater" that's missing, but if you rewind the clock back 20 years (not so long ago for those of us who grew up in the pre-fast and furious era....), you'd have to step into the supercar stratosphere to match the performance we get out of our family sedans these days.

You guys will appreciate this if you haven't seen it yet.

 

[StingertimeNC]

I'll be on Grand Course in November. Last year my best was 3:16. Hoping for significantly better than that this year. Breaking 3:10 is the new goal.

 

[JesseN]

I crossed shopped a new 5.0 Mustang vs. the CTR. Yes the 480hp V8 is awesome, but the Mustang needed another $15k+ in options to get better tires, wheels, brakes, suspension, and seats. That put it above $60k, even with an my "friends and family" discount code.

Also, the Mustang back seats are near useless if you get Recaro type front seats, and I occassionally pickup family at the airport (over an hour away).

It's pretty silly to complain about $15k in options on the Mustang, when a Civic Type R is about $20k more than the Si.

It's really just how Ford decided to package the car vs Honda. Ford let's you have the upgraded engine with an otherwise relatively basic package. Honda won't let you get the hot engine unless you get everything else.

 

[J1Avs]

Lightning Lap times are such a silly metric to stand on.

The drivers are entirely different calibers between one another. They do it on Grand West, which no one really has much experience on -- and you typically have 1 or 2 options to drive it publicly per year.

Anyone who regularly drives VIR, and has driven Grand, can see where there is a lot of time on the table in almost every video of every car, every year.

Add in different weather, different times of year, and a non-standard tire -- there's nothing to really claim.

It's a fun media opportunity, you get some baseline idea of what you car can do in relatively competent hands, but don't die on a hill defending a time.

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