Type R Track Times Pedal Dance vs. Type R+ Long Press and Experience

[johnloov]

Let's get Exact Lap DATA on Pedal Dance

What do people's lap times look like with Pedal Dance vs Type R+ Long Press ( Please be detailed to your experience w/mods as well, stock vs modifications, and which track/lap-times ):

I'm looking to find someone that has significant track time and experience with running the FL5 Type R with Pedal Dance vs. Type R+ Long Press.

I'm finding my car feels like it's handling way better with pedal dance, and more predictable. The brakes feel like they are fully retracted before braking. My stock car has 5MM Toe Out + pins removed ~1.8 minus camber - so now it naturally turns in without needing any of the brakes.

It seems like with Type R+ Long Press:

• Car become Tail happy using the brakes to turn
• Uses brakes to turn with the stock zero toe
• Brake feel - feel's like it's constantly on in canyon carving or braking - when you first touch the pedal - it feels like it's already being applied

It seems like with Pedal Dance:

• Car does not become tail happy - you are using the natural dynamics of the car to turn - become more stable
• Could understeer naturally with zero toe - but if you run 3-5mm toe out - now the car is naturally balanced to turn in without needing brakes.
• Brake feel retracted fully - until pressed - meaning, when you go to press the brakes, there is a nice initially on- off bite. Doesn't feel like other modes where I feel like on initial press, I'm joining up with already pressed pedal - This is what I'm experiencing.

"Summary is the normal VSA-off mode(+R then hold until the screen says off) the AHA actually makes the car looser(in the wet), which means its probably yawing the car more artificially with the brake. In the pedal dance mode it does not do this."

I'm finding this to be true that with Type R+ Long Press AHA only enabled, the brakes are being used, and now you have brake assisted oversteer in the car! I think this is why some people racing with zero toe are using Type+R pedal dance only.

I wil get DATA and video on this exact setup at Laguna Seca on Nov 15th.

Please share lap times and data if you have it.

Cheers,

John

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[BigBird]

I don't use +R mode at all on track. Way too stiff and bumpy for me.

Individual: Comfort shocks, +R everything else + Pedal Dance.

 

[johnloov]

I don't use +R mode at all on track. Way too stiff and bumpy for me.

Individual: Comfort shocks, +R everything else + Pedal Dance.

Excellent - How much faster were you with pedal dance vs non-pedal dance?
Do you have toe set to zero?

 

[BigBird]

camber, toe to zero.

i will say on/pedal dance was different conditions even in the same day, but off was about 1-1.5 seconds faster for me. i will say, when i mess around with +R on the street, it does give you more rotation than I expected from OEM, I feel pedal dance is similar and let's you get on the gas earlier

 

[PointByPatrol]

Let's get Exact Lap DATA on Pedal Dance

What do people's lap times look like with Pedal Dance vs Type R+ Long Press ( Please be detailed to your experience w/mods as well, stock vs modifications, and which track/lap-times ):

I'm looking to find someone that has significant track time and experience with running the FL5 Type R with Pedal Dance vs. Type R+ Long Press.

I'm finding my car feels like it's handling way better with pedal dance, and more predictable. The brakes feel like they are fully retracted before braking. My stock car has 5MM Toe Out + pins removed ~1.8 minus camber - so now it naturally turns in without needing any of the brakes.

It seems like with Type R+ Long Press:

• Car become Tail happy using the brakes to turn
• Uses brakes to turn with the stock zero toe
• Brake feel - feel's like it's constantly on in canyon carving or braking - when you first touch the pedal - it feels like it's already being applied

It seems like with Pedal Dance:

• Car does not become tail happy - you are using the natural dynamics of the car to turn - become more stable
• Could understeer naturally with zero toe - but if you run 3-5mm toe out - now the car is naturally balanced to turn in without needing brakes.
• Brake feel retracted fully - until pressed - meaning, when you go to press the brakes, there is a nice initially on- off bite. Doesn't feel like other modes where I feel like on initial press, I'm joining up with already pressed pedal - This is what I'm experiencing.

"Summary is the normal VSA-off mode(+R then hold until the screen says off) the AHA actually makes the car looser(in the wet), which means its probably yawing the car more artificially with the brake. In the pedal dance mode it does not do this."

I'm finding this to be true that with Type R+ Long Press AHA only enabled, the brakes are being used, and now you have brake assisted oversteer in the car! I think this is why some people racing with zero toe are using Type+R pedal dance only.

I wil get DATA and video on this exact setup at Laguna Seca on Nov 15th.

Please share lap times and data if you have it.

Cheers,

John

This is going to be hard to hammer down due to custom tuning. My experience with the pedal dance was not very favorable because of my tune. I'd imagine it's much more manageable on stock power, but I found that I really had to pedal the car to prevent it from blowing the tires off in every corner regardless of if it was a high speed or low speed corner.

 

[Gansan]

• Brake feel - feel's like it's constantly on in canyon carving or braking - when you first touch the pedal - it feels like it's already being applied

It seems like with Pedal Dance:

• Brake feel retracted fully - until pressed - meaning, when you go to press the brakes, there is a nice initially on- off bite. Doesn't feel like other modes where I feel like on initial press, I'm joining up with already pressed pedal - This is what I'm experiencing.

Regarding the difference in pedal feel, you are the first that I've seen to actually notice this feature. I'll have to search for it to find the original Honda source, but this was a feature of the CTR at least starting from the FK8. When you pop off the accelerator the system anticipates you're about to get on the brakes and pre-applies them to take up any pedal slack.

 

[MooMoo]

Regarding the difference in pedal feel, you are the first that I've seen to actually notice this feature. I'll have to search for it to find the original Honda source, but this was a feature of the CTR at least starting from the FK8. When you pop off the accelerator the system anticipates you're about to get on the brakes and pre-applies them to take up any pedal slack.

I have not noticed this at all.
It was very noticable on my m2 competition,. it was very annoying since it changed the feel of the brake pedal every everytime so was hard to be consistant. It could be coded, I never got to it but if I had kept the car I would have.

So if the type R is doing this, its doing it really well but I have not noticed it at all

 

[johnloov]

That's exactly what it feels like - let's confirm, and keep the data coming.
Especially track drivers, times, and if anyone instead of using brakes AHA to turn, has anyone simply put in 2mm-5mm toe out and solved this balance of the car vs using brakes to turn.

 

[PointByPatrol]

I have not noticed this at all.
It was very noticable on my m2 competition,. it was very annoying since it changed the feel of the brake pedal every everytime so was hard to be consistant. It could be coded, I never got to it but if I had kept the car I would have.

So if the type R is doing this, its doing it really well but I have not noticed it at all

The R will pump in the brakes in +R long press mid apex. I've felt it do it. The pedal pushes back at you mid corner.

 

[PointByPatrol]

That's exactly what it feels like - let's confirm, and keep the data coming.
Especially track drivers, times, and if anyone instead of using brakes AHA to turn, has anyone simply put in 2mm-5mm toe out and solved this balance of the car vs using brakes to turn.

That is a shit load of toe. You can go racing with zero toe and come back afterwards and have a ton of toe out just from threshold braking.

 

[MooMoo]

The R will pump in the brakes in +R long press mid apex. I've felt it do it. The pedal pushes back at you mid corner.

maybe I need more time with the car. On the BMW was really apparent because it would not always do it and the pedal feel was different on the same corner, awful. However easy to code, does not seem like honda platform you can't code as easily.

 

[PointByPatrol]

maybe I need more time with the car. On the BMW was really apparent because it would not always do it and the pedal feel was different on the same corner, awful. However easy to code, does not seem like honda platform you can't code as easily.

Does it to me consistently in the same corner

 

[johnloov]

That is a shit load of toe. You can go racing with zero toe and come back afterwards and have a ton of toe out just from threshold braking.

I'm following the recommendations from MotoIQ and the local race shops here, they all recommend 2-5MM toe out, especially front wheel drive.

It feels damn good, but let's see what the track tells me - It feel much faster with 1mm toe out total, so I did a full turn of the tire rods - you maybe right - will find out if it's too much

Here is a good video from MotoIQ

Toe OUT Reocmmendations - minimum 1/8th inch == 3mm out 3/16 inch to 4.7mm 3/8 inch == 9.525mm 1/2 inch == 12.7mm is good to half inch toe out diminishing returns

 

[PointByPatrol]

I'm following the recommendations from MotoIQ and the local race shops here, they all recommend 2-5MM toe out, especially front wheel drive.

It feels damn good, but let's see what the track tells me - It feel much faster with 1mm toe out total, so I did a full turn of the tire rods - you maybe right - will find out if it's too much

@tezzasaurusrex we need your alignment help, Sir!

Not only because Aussie's are nuts, but they were also friends of the Queen! Hat's off to you mate!

 

[johnloov]

He's using 1mm toe out - is it total toe out or per wheel, also interested what everyone's running, and if @tezzasaurusrex are you also driving with pedal dance?

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