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[daazn]

Can y'all write my thesis instead?

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[menikmati]

Giving this Ignore button a hell of a workout today.

 

[mbaapk]

I did not read any of it and i can still hear the blathering.

 

[TypeRD]

Some of his points made sense, so I thought useful, learning, discussion could be made. I was wrong. Very very wrong.?

 

[TimeRacer]

@TypeRD - Since you decide to block me over it. It's remarkable to get so irked by something when you say,

it isn’t quick nor easy when other production cells (within the plant) are committed to building other important vehicles. Know what I mean? The CTR is maybe the most important car to us, but from a production and $ perspective, it’s just one of several important vehicles that they need to produce and ship to dealers. Again, it is possible, but very highly improbable, that Honda would shift production away from other vehicles to make more CTR’s.

The CTR simply doesn't have a profit margin or volume sufficient enough for it to really be the priority. Yes, I acknowledge I overemphasized it but still the whole point is you made a lot of assumptions about the limitations of production and delivery numbers and set them in stone. I pointed out your assumptions as they're obviously not up for discussion. Even the assumption that every Honda plant is running at 100% duty cycle and zero capacity is not utilized due to say parts, it's all just assumed - which I said is fine.

I also never said $10k ADM will sustain indefinitely. Where did I say this? Show me. Yeah. Doesn’t exist because I never said it, nor even hinted at it.

I don’t think there will be a shortage of buyers who will pay extra for a brand new FL5 (even when given the option to pay MSRP or a little less for a used example). $10k extra? No. Up to ~$5k, sure.

So not an extension of today's market which I described? will continue indefinitely for the life cycle right? Hence your logic to buy it now/soon? Or is this really over $5k stated difference vs $5k-10k pricing of today?

I never said it wasn’t possible production could pick up. I said it isn’t PROBABLE to hit FK8 numbers. Do you know the difference between these words “possible” and “probable?”

yet...

Why? Because, unless a miracle happens, FL5 production numbers will not reach the same production numbers as the FK8. And even if they did, again, look at the prices that lightly used FK8’s are selling for.

Then...

I bring up the FK8 production and used prices, because it is relevant historically and a good gauge that folks here are familiar with, including the context of when they were built vs today.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/Honda-Civic-Type-R-d2568

I brought up an actual price tracker of the FK8 & FL5 numbers... Which shows a consistent, albit slow decline of FL5 pricing and a steady decline for FK8 pre-pandemic, not some inference of price or production or whatever reason. Then noted a number of used cars that were selling for more than new due to the pandemic issues which IS beginning to return to normal. Ex.:

https://www.iseecars.com/used-cars-cost-more-than-new-study
https://www.businessinsider.com/used-car-prices-expensive-new-msrp-toyota-rav4-ford-honda-2022-9

TL : DR
I never believed it could be this difficult to understand cars, the absolute overwhelming majority, markups go down once more supply becomes available. I apologize this has been such a disruptive idea the FK8 pre-pandemic pricing history will be similar to the FL5. Last Post.

 

[1971Camaro]

Y’all postin some long ass responses lol, definitely ain’t readin all of that

I'm reading it all, but can't comment because they both have good points and they're both talking speculations... so, there's no right or wrong... i think they should both state their main points in a short blurb and we will revisit in a year or two and see who was right. ?

 

[1971Camaro]

I’m done @TimeRacer . I’ve not made any of these “assertions” you state. Case in point, I never said the CTR was the most important vehicle (end sentence). You know how sentences work, right? Re-read what I said and maybe you will comprehend more than short phrases and singular words within the context I provided. I also never said $10k ADM will sustain indefinitely. Where did I say this? Show me. Yeah. Doesn’t exist because I never said it, nor even hinted at it. Oh here’s something else…I never said it wasn’t possible production could pick up. I said it isn’t PROBABLE to hit FK8 numbers. Do you know the difference between these words “possible” and “probable?” I guess not as I’ve used them a few times and you still don’t seem to register their meaning. I bring up the FK8 production and used prices, because it is relevant historically and a good gauge that folks here are familiar with, including the context of when they were built vs today. Like @Tickle said, you’re taking snippets of what I (and others) ACTUALLY SAID and spinning them to fit your weak, non-fact/non-reality, based narrative. You must work for a major US news network or are simply ChatGPT. It’s 100% clear a logical discussion cannot be had here. Ignoring you now….and….Byeeeee

don't get so worked up... we know you were citing facts and that you always post good info. trouble is... there are no definitives except what has already happened... otherwise, it's all speculation. let the results speak for themselves. i appreciate your contributions here.

 

[Icehawk]

So uh, back to the topic? My car has an arrival date of 3 days ago... (still hasn't actually arrived) but man I have gotten a lot of calls and texts from other dealers offering cars.

 

[TypeRD]

Thanks @1971Camaro. Appreciate you too buddy. You’re one of the most cool and level-headed folks here. As others said, it became abundantly clear that Lame Racer is trolling. I wasn’t all that frustrated TBH. Just wanted to unload on the blatant misinformation. ?

I agree with you, there’s a ton of speculation happening, including from myself. I’m not trying to fuel fomo by any means. I’m just trying to share info and perspective that is rooted in facts.

——SCROLL DOWN TO THE BOTTOM IF YOU SIMPLY WISH FOR ADVICE — I know I’m wordy.?

FL5 production is lower/slower (currently) than FK8 production was. It could improve in 2024 and beyond, but auto makers (Honda included) have already said it is what it is this year, a struggle.

Honda closed their largest vehicle production plant in Japan last December to ready it for production of electric vehicles. Additionally, they’re not taking any more FL5 orders in Japan. Neither of these factors are favorable for the chances of increased FL5 production. BUT, we all know more FL5’s will reach our shores. This should give potential buyers more dealerships to shop and force said dealerships to be a bit more competitive with their pricing. It will still be a sellers market this year, but buyers shouldn’t anticipate these $10k+ ADMs to hold if they simply wait a bit.

——HOUND THE DEALERSHIPS——

The best advice I can provide : Continue to hound those dealerships so you’re first in line (while more allocations arrive in your area). They might finally be ready to make a reasonable deal any day! Look at @Icehawk ‘s post. Cars are coming kids!?

 

[CyberCTR]

If you're reply is multiple paragraphs. Before you post hit CTRL + SHIFT then the left arrow key to highlight it all, then press delete....because no one is going to read it.

 

[TypeRD]

It’s fine. People have the option to read or not.?

 

[Xchax3]

Wait until after this generation is over. Then we'll make comparisons. I'm guilty of saying "400 FL5 units a month in 4 years is wayyy less than 48000 FK8s in 4 years". But I'm just feeding to the fire. We can't compare until this generation Type R is no longer in production. And probably with a cool Limited Edition model made with Spoon Sports or something. Since it can be the last ICE Type R.

Anyways, going to talk to a manager at Honda of San Juan to see how many of these numbers are getting mixed with the numbers going to Florida where they import from to the Caribbean or if they're not mixed with the allocation numbers headed to Florida.

 

[UnderCover]

don't get so worked up... we know you were citing facts and that you always post good info. trouble is... there are no definitives except what has already happened... otherwise, it's all speculation. let the results speak for themselves. i appreciate your contributions here.

Let's be real here, there wasn't many facts used for RD's view. Honda's been supply capped for a while, 2022 was terrible for Honda supply chain and plenty of sources will confirm and why sales, especially Acura, suffered so much - there was no cars. His view is a self justified FOMO view on the car, as we all are to some degree, but we are only 4 months in and predicting anything beyond today is entirely speculation. Look at the price history for the FK8 TimeRacer supplied, derive what you want.

To add to this post, locked one in below $5k ADM.

 

[TypeRD]

@UnderCover I even said as much and went back and outlined my core points earlier today, because they got so ridiculously misconstrued. If people, like LameRacer, want to stretch their imagination so far beyond my actual words (then try to put words in my mouth simultaneously), that’s not on me. At the end of the day, no one knows what the future holds with any more certainty than the plant managers where the FL5 is built and their managers. Even then, their certainty has limitations.

I have nothing else to add.

I have no leads to share with anyone at the moment, unfortunately.

 

[Trilly_Loomis]

Once I lock one down for real I think this will have to be my plate. ?

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