What did you pay for your FL5?

[savagegeese]

I'm sure for you it's a business expense tax write off.

Only certain % its mostly personal usage.

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[Boostlag]

Only certain % its mostly personal usage.

I think a lot of us would like to see a regular updates on a long term ownership.

 

[Geezer]

USAA 5.25% 60
Purchase Price: $43,990
Title License: $341
Doc Fee: $324
Taxes: $3104
Out The Door: $47,759

Plus:
$2500 on Accessories (Wing, Trunk Mat, extended Mats)

This is just a note to everyone. This winds up being very expensive, even at MSRP. To put it in perspective when I bought a used 2008 Lotus Exige S in 2010 with 6k miles, that car was less than this at $43k.

This is still a great car, but its a Civic. Be smart.

Out of curiosity is this a media personality deal or did you negotiate this outside of the purview of social media celebrity? How can I be smart and pay that price if I am a nobody off the street?

 

[Trunkster]

I think a lot of us would like to see a regular updates on a long term ownership.

See
2023 Civic Type R FL5 - Reviews Compilation (Articles + Videos)
Post #471

 

[savagegeese]

Out of curiosity is this a media personality deal or did you negotiate this outside of the purview of social media celebrity? How can I be smart and pay that price if I am a nobody off the street?

I am finishing the video on buying this car and discussing this very point. And should have some explainations from dealer and Honda about this stuff. But in my case, yes I asked Honda for an allocation and they arranged a car and dealership that would not go above MSRP. Ill get into more detail, there is red tape for sure.

 

[Geezer]

I am finishing the video on buying this car and discussing this very point. And should have some explainations from dealer and Honda about this stuff. But in my case, yes I asked Honda for an allocation and they arranged a car and dealership that would not go above MSRP. Ill get into more detail, there is red tape for sure.

Looking forward to watching and happy for ya that you got a deal. Don't know if it's fair to throw it into the spreadsheet unless it has a huge disclaimer in the notes column heh. Is the dealer where you purchased selling at msrp to everyone else? Would love for you to include that tidbit in your vid.

 

[elusiveaura]

The main problem is Honda knows dealers are ripping people off and they’re not doing anything about it. This has been ongoing since the fk8 and all the way back to s2000. It’s gotten worse of course as we come to present day. I was able to get an FK8 for msrp 5 hours away but it took some work, but the FL5 was basically impossible.

honda claimed they were taking notes of which dealers are being greedy but let’s be honest, they’re not and they don’t care. I like watching savagegeese and redline, etc and I’m glad they’re able to get these cars for MSRP because they’re enthusiasts like us, but us lowly peasants have virtually no chance at this price because we are nobodies and there is nothing we can do about it.

 

[Jigalo]

I am finishing the video on buying this car and discussing this very point. And should have some explainations from dealer and Honda about this stuff. But in my case, yes I asked Honda for an allocation and they arranged a car and dealership that would not go above MSRP. Ill get into more detail, there is red tape for sure.

so since MSRP isn’t available for the most of us. What is the max premium you would of paid for this car since you own one?

 

[SP R KiD]

so since MSRP isn’t available for the most of us. What is the max premium you would of paid for this car since you own one?

He did say in his review it's only worth MSRP and nothing more. That's also easy to say if you have premium access to being able to only pay MSRP IMO. Not knocking his opinion because I agree, MSRP is a standard for what someone's interpretation for the price is, this someone being the someone who built the car. But let's be real, there is more to this type of car than parts, labor to build it, and shipping. There's exclusivity and rarity along with history. The car is obviously worth more than MSRP given the average going rate of these falls somewhere between 10-20k over MSRP.

If your opinion is the car itself regarding what it took to build the car and how it performs is what represents that value, then yes, 44k. If you're going to start factoring in everything else, the price is higher and understandably so as much as some people may not like it. I think anyone would like to pay as little as possible.

 

[savagegeese]

The main problem is Honda knows dealers are ripping people off and they’re not doing anything about it. This has been ongoing since the fk8 and all the way back to s2000. It’s gotten worse of course as we come to present day. I was able to get an FK8 for msrp 5 hours away but it took some work, but the FL5 was basically impossible.

honda claimed they were taking notes of which dealers are being greedy but let’s be honest, they’re not and they don’t care. I like watching savagegeese and redline, etc and I’m glad they’re able to get these cars for MSRP because they’re enthusiasts like us, but us lowly peasants have virtually no chance at this price because we are nobodies and there is nothing we can do about it.

My job is to publicly call out and shame the industry and many dealers and advocate that people don't support that behavior. Buy the cars yes, but not at prices dealers think the car is worth based on broken market conditions.

There are multiple layers to this and the consumer loses on all of it.
Honda America has zero control over what Japan does with production. They can recommend, request more cars but it won't get us more cars. They are not transparent about production numbers, only that the Type R pulls resources away from volume cars in that plant.

Dealers in the United States want one thing, more cars on the lot and not Type R. They want to close more deals. I spent more time than I care to admit discussing this. Type R is nice show room jewelry but its a single car that means nothing to them from a business side. So if you ask Honda and a dealership what the priority is and why they mark up Type R? The answer will always be, that's what the market commands. And the market commands that if customers buy the car for over MSRP, period.

We as enthusiasts want affordable fun cars. The brands offer them but prioritize production on volume models because thats what dealers are desperate for. Until that changes we are screwed.

Now there are behind the scenes things, like dealers playing nice, like mine who only sells cars at MSRP. They create positive PR, experience for the brand, they will likely get allocated more cars or more Type Rs.

 

[elusiveaura]

my main point is Honda gave you a better deal and a chance at that deal and not the rest of us. I get it, you’re a car reviewer etc and a damn good one at that. I love your content and I’m not trying to knock you for it.

I’m simply stating the rest of us casuals get screwed over with no chance at getting the deal you got

My job is to publicly call out and shame the industry and many dealers and advocate that people don't support that behavior. Buy the cars yes, but not at prices dealers think the car is worth based on broken market conditions.

There are multiple layers to this and the consumer loses on all of it.
Honda America has zero control over what Japan does with production. They can recommend, request more cars but it won't get us more cars. They are not transparent about production numbers, only that the Type R pulls resources away from volume cars in that plant.

Dealers in the United States want one thing, more cars on the lot and not Type R. They want to close more deals. I spent more time than I care to admit discussing this. Type R is nice show room jewelry but its a single car that means nothing to them from a business side. So if you ask Honda and a dealership what the priority is and why they mark up Type R? The answer will always be, that's what the market commands. And the market commands that if customers buy the car for over MSRP, period.

We as enthusiasts want affordable fun cars. The brands offer them but prioritize production on volume models because thats what dealers are desperate for. Until that changes we are screwed.

Now there are behind the scenes things, like dealers playing nice, like mine who only sells cars at MSRP. They create positive PR, experience for the brand, they will likely get allocated more cars or more Type Rs.

 

[savagegeese]

He did say in his review it's only worth MSRP and nothing more. That's also easy to say if you have premium access to being able to only pay MSRP IMO. Not knocking his opinion because I agree, MSRP is a standard for what someone's interpretation for the price is, this someone being the someone who built the car. But let's be real, there is more to this type of car than parts, labor to build it, and shipping. There's exclusivity and rarity along with history. The car is obviously worth more than MSRP given the average going rate of these falls somewhere between 10-20k over MSRP.

If your opinion is the car itself regarding what it took to build the car and how it performs is what represents that value, then yes, 44k. If you're going to start factoring in everything else, the price is higher and understandably so as much as some people may not like it. I think anyone would like to pay as little as possible.

The original Type R was like 38k and that was a stretch for what this car is. Now they moved it up closer to 45k for largely a car that does not cost them anymore to make. If you start selling this for over 50k with markup the car competes with more premium models that are in almost every single metric better sports cars (removing Honda fanboyism out of it).

Thats where I said, its not worth more than MSRP because it is already a stretch, and objectively even at 45k unless you are a Honda fan most normal car enthusiats would be laugh at that. I completely get it.

The manual supra on good tires would send this car back in time, the Camaro SS 1LE would obliterate it, the Z on real tires would be engaging in similar ways and even the Gr86 with just suspension and tires will run faster laps for far less money, feel engaging to drive. Even the Elantra N for 38k is almost identical in performance.

Im in a rare spot to have been on track/street to know. I still chose the Type R because I am some kind of twisted Honda fan. It makes almost no rational sense.

 

[savagegeese]

my main point is Honda gave you a better deal and a chance at that deal and not the rest of us. I get it, you’re a car reviewer etc and a damn good one at that. I love your content and I’m not trying to knock you for it.

I’m simply stating the rest of us casuals get screwed over with no chance at getting the deal you got

I promise I will hammer your point home on the video about this process. I am not disconnected from reality. I share the identical frustration and borderline anger about it.

 

[elusiveaura]

you’re all good man and I know you will. Like I said I don’t dislike you for it. I’m glad you got it for that because you put in the hard work and I love your reviews. I just wish Honda and other manufacturers would put a stop to this somehow.

I’m still getting the car. I feel like I still got a good deal because I really want this car. While it might be pushing premium brands prices, no other vehicle “feels” like the type R. I not referring to speed, just referring to the handling and overall enjoyment out of the car. A Supra just doesn’t do it for me, plus it’s 2 doors. I’m a Honda fanboy too so I’m sticking with the car. I look forward to your video.

I promise I will hammer your point home on the video about this process. I am not disconnected from reality. I share the identical frustration and borderline anger about it.

 

[oknotok]

I am finally in a position where I can buy my first brand-new car, and these markups are something else. I just got off the phone with 4 Norcal dealers, all pricing their cars at least $15k. These are all the same dealers I called prior to the announcement requesting to be put on a list, of course, they don't even bother to give me a call back. The most egregious markup was Shottenkirk of Davis asking for a $30k markup.

I am on an MSRP list for a GR Corolla and an Integra Type S and I hope those don't have any surprises. The CTR feels the most special and usable as a family car, but seems like they aren't obtainable yet anywhere close to MSRP

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