vs Forte GT

[VarmintCong]

I'm not very knowledgeable in this topic, but I guess my biggest pleasure from driving cars with LSD is on winding roads or turns that you take faster than you should.

So on dry pavement the LSD lets you get on the gas coming out of the turn much earlier or stronger than you normally could with an open diff. In a modestly powered car like the Civic you can get by without one if you aren't aggressive with the throttle - unless it rains or snows, then you get tons of wheelspin, just pulling onto a wet road at mild throttle inputs. That's what I hated about my Sport hatch, the wheelspin (or the traction control cutting power and the car bogging down) in the rain.

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[KoukiVAB]

I don't get why it's missing LSD. Pretty sure it would just be an easy swap since it's already in i20N's parts bin. Same goes for the Elantra N line.
I've driven Veloster N base and Performance pack back to back and the absence of the e-LSD was definitely noticeable.

Don't forget that the "sporty" Hyundais and Kias with that engine come with POS 7DCT.
They started replacing it with newer Torque converter 8AT but for some reason the Forte GT and Elantra N line still have it.
It's interesting since their 8DCT is one of the best in the market right now imo.

The engine itself is pretty nice tho. There are "some" aftermarket support, too.

 

[katch922]

@VarmintCong Bingo! I think you hit the nail on the head. Auto makers don’t put LSD on most common FWD vehicles because they usually have an automatic transmission.

We all know that the automatics found in these kinds of cars are designed primarily for safety and efficiency, not performance. As such, the ECU is programmed NOT to allow wheel spin by carefully controlling the throttle response and gear, therefore power to the wheels. This renders an LSD almost completely unnecessary, regardless of added cost or the general consumer’s knowledge of what they are or how they work. Like you said : If you have good tires, you should be pretty much good to go.

Yeah, I agree it makes total sense that LSDs should be standard on any modern 6mt vehicle since the driver is in control of the throttle and the gear. It aids performance, handling, and safety on dry roads. Regarding the efficacy of an LSD in snow the jury is mixed. It seems there are pros and cons vs an open differential. Efficacy of either system is indeed situational. What’s key in either case is traction (good tires). This article concisely outlines and compares what we’re discussing. I’m not an expert and found it helpful. Reading a bit on other car forums, it seems that LSD vs open differential is a common area of confusion and debate too.?
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm

Regarding handling in rain vs snow, there are some similarities, but also a pretty big difference. The main difference is that snow will pack into the tire treads and reduce traction even moreso than rain.

Note : My example earlier about trucks was incorrect. I was getting mixed up with a locking differential…which is quite different from an LSD. Doh! My bad.

Good how stuff works article. So my question now is, I know a lot of cars have what is called torque vectoring, and I never knew if those are as good as LSD or not, can someone comment? I've always stayed away from those cars, like IS350, since I wanted an LSD. I know one disadvantage is the fact that it uses brakes to slow down wheels so I guess technically you'll probably need to change brakes sooner, but would you guys say it's as effective as an LSD?

 

[katch922]

New Sonata looks pretty nice, they should do a Sonata N instead of just N Line, but I guess that would cost as much as CTR. I would probably consider it though.

 

[TypeRD]

Good info @VarmintCong. I like how this thread went from nothing to being informative and helpful.

I think I was getting my wires crossed between the different types of differentials and different types of traction control. There are so many types and combinations of both. Not to mention, reading things in other forums about LSD causing more understeer seems to be internet “experts” trying to pose theory as fact.

What’s clear to me now is that an LSD should be helpful on virtually any fwd car for cornering. It’s odd that it isn’t standard on more cars. Sure cost is a factor, but there are expensive fwd luxury cars out there that could easily justify it. It has to be purely a marketing thing and a way auto makers ensure the most sporty models handle the best. Perhaps they also avoid putting LSD on non-performance models because they don’t want cars that aren’t designed for spirited cornering to have this feature without the accompanying suspension, tires, geometry, etc.?

 

[GrDeleto]

I don't get why it's missing LSD. Pretty sure it would just be an easy swap since it's already in i20N's parts bin. Same goes for the Elantra N line.
I've driven Veloster N base and Performance pack back to back and the absence of the e-LSD was definitely noticeable.

Don't forget that the "sporty" Hyundais and Kias with that engine come with POS 7DCT.
They started replacing it with newer Torque converter 8AT but for some reason the Forte GT and Elantra N line still have it.
It's interesting since their 8DCT is one of the best in the market right now imo.

The engine itself is pretty nice tho. There are "some" aftermarket support, too.

They have an aftermarket one from Quilafe. Essentially the engine in the gt is from the veloster turbo. The n-line uses the one in the i20n.
Hyundai and Kia Performance Specialists | KDM Tuners | Quaife Limited Slip Differential - Hyundai/Kia 1.6T

 

[VarmintCong]

I don't get why it's missing LSD. Pretty sure it would just be an easy swap since it's already in i20N's parts bin. Same goes for the Elantra N line.
I've driven Veloster N base and Performance pack back to back and the absence of the e-LSD was definitely noticeable.

Don't forget that the "sporty" Hyundais and Kias with that engine come with POS 7DCT.
They started replacing it with newer Torque converter 8AT but for some reason the Forte GT and Elantra N line still have it.
It's interesting since their 8DCT is one of the best in the market right now imo.

The engine itself is pretty nice tho. There are "some" aftermarket support, too.

I think it’s all about meeting the low price, it’s a lot of car on paper. The Civics are awesome but the price has gone up a lot.

 

[VarmintCong]

Good info @VarmintCong. I like how this thread went from nothing to being informative and helpful.

I think I was getting my wires crossed between the different types of differentials and different types of traction control. There are so many types and combinations of both. Not to mention, reading things in other forums about LSD causing more understeer seems to be internet “experts” trying to pose theory as fact.

What’s clear to me now is that an LSD should be helpful on virtually any fwd car for cornering. It’s odd that it isn’t standard on more cars. Sure cost is a factor, but there are expensive fwd luxury cars out there that could easily justify it. It has to be purely a marketing thing and a way auto makers ensure the most sporty models handle the best. Perhaps they also avoid putting LSD on non-performance models because they don’t want cars that aren’t designed for spirited cornering to have this feature without the accompanying suspension, tires, geometry, etc.?

yeah there’s different kinds of torque vectoring, which I think typically has a differential, M cars have torque vectoring differentials. I forget what they call the brake based system like on open diff BMWs, but it’s not as good as an LSD. Even e-diffs are confusing, I think the GTI’s e-diff distributes torque, it doesn’t just use the brakes like a non-M 3 series.

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