The Hunt for a FL5 CTR

[MoodySara]

I'll play the devil some more.
Buy what you want and can afford.
You didn't say anything about being married or having kids, so go for it.

I'm not 'semi-old'. I'm old (77 next month).

I bought a new Porsche 911T in 1969 when I was 22 years old. At the time, that car cost about 50% of my annual salary. I had a very cooperative loan officer at a small local bank, so financing was never an issue. He was kind of a car guy, and always was interested in what I'd bought.

Also in 1969, I changed jobs and moved from MA to Pasadena CA. A three-day drive from New England and I was in sunny California. I never bought a house in CA, but rented instead. Given the early-70's market in CA and since, I probably should have bought one. I just never thought of CA as a long-term thing. I moved out after about 5 years.

I never worried about buying that car or any since.

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[Chilly613]

I had zero anxiety when buying a new car. I always planned ahead, researched, get all the different out the door prices from multiple dealers, get pre-approved financing, find the dealer I want to work with, negotiate with them and show them the offers the other dealers had and get them to match pricing for the better deal.

Honestly though, if you plan on moving any time soon, I'd probably advise against buying a new car at the same time. Stretching your finances thin, just for the sake of having a new car (regardless if its a CTR or not) and having to worry about a new place and getting settled. I'd pass on the new car personally, but you do you.

 

[Manettino]

I think it really depends on where you live to be perfectly honest. Renting vs. buying isn't always going to be a negative for renting especially in California. I would urge people to stay away from the traditional ideal that real estate is always better; it's totally case dependent. Average stock market gain in any index over the last 10 years far outstrips 90% of all real estate opportunities and that's before factoring in HOA and property tax.

With the current economic climate, unless you're buying/own a Porsche GT car you're going to have to factor in depreciation of the car and you absolutely have to get it at or below MSRP. This car isn't going to be worth $40k with 30k miles and a couple of years on it. I know dealers even in California that are going below MSRP and I can put you in touch with them. I believe if cars are your passion, then you are allowed to spend on it, but make sure it is your ONLY expensive passion, otherwise costs add up quickly. If you get a higher interest rate, pay the car down more quickly so you're not paying interest, but try to make sure it's less than 7%, whether it's through the dealer (I got 5.99) or through a credit union.

 

[TW00Si]

Let’s simplify it. If the monthly payment is going to put stress on your life or you would need to scrap for food, don’t buy the FL5. If you can afford the monthly payments and insurance for at least 6 months due to a loss of job, go for it. You want to be not stressed and starved. Health is worth a lot more.

 

[DustyDan]

I think its very hard to give you advice when we have to assume how much money you make/have now, likely will make within the next few years, and the price of a home in your area. By no means should you share that info on here but that would be the best way for anyone to give sound advice based on your short term goals.

What I would suggest is to do is a little forecasting. If you purchase the car what is going to happen 5 years from now when you want a house? Will you be able to save during those years based on the monthly car payments and get a house that you want, or would you be car poor? For me personally, I've always spent a little extra on the car, as has everyone else here I'm sure, because it is a passion! But there's a line between affording something and being car poor. IMO you have to be doing very very well, id say above average, to be buying a $50k car and home by yourself at 26 which, if true, kudos to you! Personally, if $50-100 difference in monthly payment were a deal breaker then that prob isn't the case and IMO I can't afford this specific car at this price range, whether that's framed as a markup or interest rate it doesn't matter. If you have a partner maybe it's a different story with two incomes. All things to think about. But id suggest trying to forecast out past just the initial purchase, who knows maybe you can afford it and it will give you some clarity to know you can and ultimately will be fine!

Last thing I will say is that yes this car gave me a lot of anxiety about how much it cost so I feel you there for sure. As a guy just a few years older than you a $700-800 a month payment not including insurance, gas, or mods is a huge chunk of money if you've never paid that for a car before. I would venture to say you won't find many people your age with one of these cars (there's a post about CTR age of owner on this forum somewhere) and to my point there arnt many under 30 yrs old and for good reason, economics. At your age I was looking at payments of $300-$400 as SO MUCH MONEY, because it was for me! There's only one thing that got me over seeing that number leave my account each month and that was running the numbers over and over and realizing the simple fact that I CAN afford it and still achieve my financial goals outside of owning it. And yes I still need to remind myself of that every month!

Important thing is that you are on the right track by thinking about it and asking questions!

 

[cp3297]

Based on the numbers you posted, I'm guessing that's around an 8.3% interest rate. I personally couldn't swallow that.

For reference, I have excellent credit and am currently pre-qualified for 5.9% through a local credit union. If the dealership won't let you bring your own financing that should be a red flag that they are trying to stick you with a high interest rate. I would go find another dealership. Many dealerships on the east coast seem to be selling for MSRP now.

I had a lot of anxiety because no local dealerships would let me test drive an FL5. I was able to find a used one to test drive though. I very much enjoyed the car, so that really helped put my mind at ease.

I agree, 8.3% is egregious given what it could be if I had actually done more of my homework and attempted to get pre-qualified. I was going to the specific dealer that I worked with to purchase my Accord because the rate was excellent at the time. (2.9% I believe, and because for purchase price they couldn't be beat either.) I believe this $900 payment quoted included sales tax over the life of the loan, I actually calculated 9% or greater.

I don't think any of the east coast dealers that I've interacted with would let me test drive - did you go to a dealer with one that was used specifically to try it out?

As for the moving out part, and financial future aspect - I agree, its sensible to keep a good financial plan going. I already have a budget set up, and don't have any significantly expensive hobbies to speak of, so I think one could argue for wiggle room if it wasn't a crazy OTD price like i've been getting quotes for. My intent there, when I mentioned financing was to remain liquid in the short term, and whatever interest I pay is the opportunity cost for not waiting another year or two.

 

[cp3297]

-Also as far as the 4k deposit I would not put it down unless it's refundable. If the dealership insist on a non-refundable deposit then that would be a huge red flag for me.

Like other's have said please make sure this won't make you uncomfortable financially. No sense in you worrying about having to work extra to make some of the money back or missing out on hobby's because you paid for a car you weren't ready for financially. Ask me how I know............

Almost forgot I shared the same anxiety about not being able to test drive the car, however my dealership let me test drive it before I signed the paperwork. Only caveat to that is that you won't be able to get a good feel for it if you are anything like me, because I didn't push it past 4k rpm. Didn't want to go against break in period just in case I did buy car. But at least you'll get a general feel for it. Sorry I'm all over the place haha

I agree with you on the non-refundable deposit. They did two things that gave me such an ick (which makes me think its really unwise to work with them if I'm going to make this deal happen at all this year):

First, I mentioned a phone conversation I had with their digitaal sales team around April 3rd where they mentioned, "we'll beat any dealer price by $500", but on the offer sheet they only gave me $250.

Second, they brought me the offer sheet and said $2K deposit, to which I asked if it is non-refundable, and they later changed to the afformentioned $4K.

I would be interested to discuss how you do your deep dives to determine the number of days a car sits on a lot. My bigger fear is that hybrid/electric is going to invade this space before I ever get the opportunity to experience cars as they are now... wondering how many people could relate to that one haha.

And again, for finances the biggest thing is just remaining somewhat liquid - I'll try to elaborate more in responses down the line on this thread which got a hell of a lot more responses than I thought it would!

 

[cp3297]

Save the money and your anxiety. Keep using your Accord and plan wisely for your future. The CTR is more of an emotional purchase just like most everything else out there.

I'd argue that any purchase beyond a pure need is an emotional purchase - but I do really appreciate hearing this. I'm surprised more of you guys aren't just cheering me on or telling me go for it.

 

[cp3297]

There are a lot of responses to this thread, so I'll try to respond to all the points you made with an @ here and there because I think I've addressed a bunch of it already.

@DustyDan - Agreed, future finances should be taken care of, and there's only so much information I can/should volunteer here about that. With all I have volunteered, even with moving out I wouldn't just be scraping by or car poor, but then my current situation allows me to save a lot more, so justifying this is a lot simpler to me at the moment.

@Mannetino - I think that it would end up being my only expensive hobby, I've taken to hiking recently which really doesn't cost all that much. (gas, food, water...)

@AspecR - For some reason I expected a lot more responses to be like yours! Quite honestly one of the funniest responses here... either way, I think it boils down to mixed priorities.

@MoodySara - I think you get first place for funniest post here. I appreciate a take from all angles on this, I've only had people closer to me giving me their two cents, and its been hard to get any sort of consensus on it. Irony of ironies which you might appreciate is a family member of mine telling me that, right out of college, he bought a sports car in ~1985 for approximately $17k if I recall correctly - and adjusted for inflation that just HAPPENS TO BE approximately MSRP (~$48,000) on a Civic Type R. COINCIDENCE? This same individual told me not to make the purchase.

As things settle once I'm moved out, and I see how well my budget expectation vs. reality line up, that should determine the next move. It's certainly not worth actively chasing this kind of deal just yet. (Though, if a 'unicorn' deal pops up I'll probably still consider it). Hard to believe I'm saying that with the offer on the table right now, but I agree that there are too many red flags with it - no commitment to interest rate via Honda Financial, non-refundable deposit, and no mention of even being able to test drive... yikes.

Hopefully the FOMO doesn't catch up to me as I also watch used examples go for list price too...

Just a funny tidbit for all of you. I got a call from a dealer I have gone to for service in the past, today - I told this guy $10k ADM was a non-starter a month ago. I politely told him I don't think he could come close since I have an offer in hand for MSRP, and he said, "Yeah we couldn't do that but we could work with you on it..." the audacity of these guys, right?

 

[jwong333]

My bigger fear is that hybrid/electric is going to invade this space before I ever get the opportunity to experience cars as they are now... wondering how many people could relate to that one haha.

lol I'm 22 and thought that... so i bought a CTR a couple months ago.

 

[Zone47]

I'm with the: get a house and the things that are truly important first crowd.

A snazzy car is certainly secondary or even further out in the big scheme of things and for whenever you have your career dialed in and have a little money to burn. You can find plenty of them on the used market for very reasonable prices (as long as you avoid the dealerships). Buying a used stock to slightly modified car that has been well documented and cared for is a good way to save a LOT of cash, as long as it wasn't a weekend track car.

 

[RUNN1N]

Irony of ironies which you might appreciate is a family member of mine telling me that, right out of college, he bought a sports car in ~1985 for approximately $17k if I recall correctly - and adjusted for inflation that just HAPPENS TO BE approximately MSRP (~$48,000) on a Civic Type R. COINCIDENCE? This same individual told me not to make the purchase.

It's a lot less expensive to learn from someone else's mistake(s)--the FL5 is a fantastic car, but many of us around here see it as a luxury and not a necessity.

I'm sensing a lot of urgency and FOMO, and that's fair, but rarely are wise decisions made with a scarcity mindset. Take things one step at a time, you're entering a stage where a lot will cost more than anticipated.

 

[jtrader]

I will say, mid to late 20's, even though I was making way less money than I do now at 46, my disposable income was about as high as it ever was in my life. No wife. No kids. No problems! It's obviously your call, your money, but I was driving a Probe GT 5-speed with NOS at 26 and I loved every minute of it. It's probably the equivalent of a modern day 10th gen Si, which is ultimately my recommendation for you as a 26 year old. Tune it and it'll feel just as fast as the CTR. Cheers!

 

[Josh2389]

Late to the game but I'll add to this convo if you're still in the market.

As long as it doesn't break "your bank" and stress you out on the payments, I say go for it if you can get a MSRP deal with a low interest rate.

All these people saying just buy a house bro are kind of not living in reality. Even if you have 100% cash to buy an FL5 right now, that's barely a deposit on a condo depending on where you live. It could be years before you could realistically buy a house. Sure you could be putting that money in a high yield savings or stocks or whatever. The stocks you buy could also collapse.

My point is, do you really want to wait until your 46 to buy the dream car? I've seen so many posts on here and on reddit where older folks are scared to drive it and make their civics garage queens (lol) or have to constantly worry about if the kids fit, etc.

All this to say, if you have the means, yolo and full send. Life is about living and you will not be disappointed in the FL5. If this will financially cripple you, don't do it.

 

[TheKrumpet]

I'm 26. Just got married and got my CTR the same week.

$700-$750 a month payment with a $15K / 48 months (this is possible; Honda tier 1 is ~7%)

You have to find a dealership that isn't trying to upsell your loan rates. Going through Honda Financial directly should get you close to 7% as long as you have around 750-800 credit score (source: I financed late April through Honda Financial)

I think if you can afford the payment you don't dump 50k straight on a car.

Homes are a lot of responsibility and for a nice home these days? It's like 90k cash + 3k/month for 30 years just as a baseline existence expense.... Is that really "the best financial decision"?

I would definitely bring someone who can drive stick and do some practice. It's a super easy car to drive but might be good to have someone to talk to you about basics and who can be a crutch when you drive it outta there.

You can't take the money with you when you die. You can die tomorrow. Balancing your future plan with living in the present is an important part of life. Sounds like it's not a super big risk if you have around 50k straight capital. Get the car. Enjoy it! and if times get tough sell it you'll have positive equity in it for quite a while.

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