Spoon vs PRL vs other rigid collars

[Evox787]

This is a good take. There are many aftermarket parts available that provide little to no value depending on the use case. Enthusiasts tend to buy shit just because it's available and then justify how the part makes the car feel "connected" or "planted" or "this is the way it should've come from the factory."

Or bEcAuSe iS jDm qUaLiTy!

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[raptor718]

Rear sway bar and as much chassis bracing as you can do. Lowering on the FL5 isn't nearly as effective on the track because the cars center of gravity is already so low.

Honestly I think you're better off messing with tires than even touching suspension.

Rear sway bar only, Cueyo?

 

[Cueyo]

Rear sway bar only, Cueyo?

I think with the FL5 even that's optional depending on how much rotation you want in the car.

I think if I were to mod my suspension, I'd lower primarily for looks, and get some adjustable suspension components to allow myself to tune the wheel and tire setup. Sway bar maybe if I wanna have fun.

 

[tezzasaurusrex]

I designed my own collars as I don't like the design of the Spoon/other commercially available ones. The Spoon actually lower the subframe by 1-1.5mm which lowers the roll centers, and I'm convinced that's what people are feeling when they feel like their car is more comfortable/compliant after fitting rigid collars... either that or its placebo.
My collars simply centralise the main member of the subframe, and has no effect on the roll centre geometry. Once the subframe is centralised and torqued down, there is no movement in the subframe in relation to the monocoque. The OE design has a high friction disc/plate that bites the chassis once torqued down to eliminate any chance of movement/slippage, which the Spoon collars actually cover/disable once installed....

 

[Ph8ed4life]

I designed my own collars as I don't like the design of the Spoon/other commercially available ones. The Spoon actually lower the subframe by 1-1.5mm which lowers the roll centers...

Interesting point, thank you for sharing this and your pics. I hadn't thought of this lowering of the RC; ideally a sleeve that keeps the bolts centered in the subframe bushings would be ideal? That way there is no interference with the high friction piece and no lowering of RC? I'm assuming thats what your collars are doing, and I say Bravo for executing your thoughts!

The OE design has a high friction disc/plate that bites the chassis once torqued down to eliminate any chance of movement/slippage, which the Spoon collars actually cover/disable once installed....

This high friction piece, is that the black piece in this pic? Held in place with a 10 or 12mm bolt, by the looks of it? Are they present on both front and rear subframes?

 

[tezzasaurusrex]

Interesting point, thank you for sharing this and your pics. I hadn't thought of this lowering of the RC; ideally a sleeve that keeps the bolts centered in the subframe bushings would be ideal? That way there is no interference with the high friction piece and no lowering of RC? I'm assuming thats what your collars are doing, and I say Bravo for executing your thoughts!



This high friction piece, is that the black piece in this pic? Held in place with a 10 or 12mm bolt, by the looks of it? Are they present on both front and rear subframes?

That's right, technically a snug fitting sleeve would do the job just as good, but you might lose it in the tunnel and would be difficult to extract without fully dropping the subframe. Not to mention the tunnel itself may not be perfectly round and cylindrical all the way through. Whereas a stepped washer can sit on top and if you needed to remove it you would just drop the subframe by the height of the washer which mine is 5mm tall.

Yup, you can see the almost skateboard deck looking finish on the black ring. This is on the front subframe only. Rear subframe does not have this feature.

 

[Ph8ed4life]

That's right, technically a snug fitting sleeve would do the job just as good, but you might lose it in the tunnel and would be difficult to extract without fully dropping the subframe. Not to mention the tunnel itself may not be perfectly round and cylindrical all the way through. Whereas a stepped washer can sit on top and if you needed to remove it you would just drop the subframe by the height of the washer which mine is 5mm tall.

Yup, you can see the almost skateboard deck looking finish on the black ring. This is on the front subframe only. Rear subframe does not have this feature.

Man, I appreciate you sharing this. I was real on the fence with installing a collar kit but I'm leaning towards the direction you've gone. Thank you!

 

[jtlctr]

The OE design has a high friction disc/plate that bites the chassis once torqued down to eliminate any chance of movement/slippage, which the Spoon collars actually cover/disable once installed....

I’m not sure this is true. The Spoon collars have the centering collar on either side of the washer. Therefore they should be locked into the chassis and the subframe preventing movement from either side of the washer.
That being said, I still question their usefulness and feel a little bit like a sucker for buying them

 

[tezzasaurusrex]

I’m not sure this is true. The Spoon collars have the centering collar on either side of the washer. Therefore they should be locked into the chassis and the subframe preventing movement from either side of the washer.
That being said, I still question their usefulness and feel a little bit like a sucker for buying them

Yes that's right, the shoulders of the collar is designed to fill the gap between the shank of the subframe bolt and the subframe itself, but by covering the OE friction plate it then relies on the compressive strength of the aluminium shoulders of the collar to prevent any subframe movement relative to the monocoque. And we all know how soft these collars are.

 

[jtlctr]

Yes that's right, the shoulders of the collar is designed to fill the gap between the shank of the subframe bolt and the subframe itself, but by covering the OE friction plate it then relies on the compressive strength of the aluminium shoulders of the collar to prevent any subframe movement relative to the monocoque. And we all know how soft these collars are.

It would be an interesting experiment to remove them after much hard track use to see if there is any deformation/evidence of slippage.

 

[Evox787]

I designed my own collars as I don't like the design of the Spoon/other commercially available ones. The Spoon actually lower the subframe by 1-1.5mm which lowers the roll centers, and I'm convinced that's what people are feeling when they feel like their car is more comfortable/compliant after fitting rigid collars... either that or its placebo.
My collars simply centralise the main member of the subframe, and has no effect on the roll centre geometry. Once the subframe is centralised and torqued down, there is no movement in the subframe in relation to the monocoque. The OE design has a high friction disc/plate that bites the chassis once torqued down to eliminate any chance of movement/slippage, which the Spoon collars actually cover/disable once installed....

Your design looks amazing and more functional focused than the Spoon ones but probably I get chewed up here

 

[tezzasaurusrex]

It would be an interesting experiment to remove them after much hard track use to see if there is any deformation/evidence of slippage.

I have seen a few old/used ones and they definitely get crushed/pitted over time but hard to say if its from reinstallation or from chassis flex etc etc.

Your design looks amazing and more functional focused than the Spoon ones but probably I get chewed up here

Well lets see so far I haven't seen any movement or issues running a pretty potent aero package but I'm about to move on to R compound semi's which will absolutely expose the chassis to much greater loads.

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