FL5 Overheated on Track

[siwelnosaj]

could cut a hole next to the intercooler and run a brake hose duct to the side of the wheel well?

At that point it's similar to what I'm running with my oil cooler ducting set up. I guess I'm just saying I'm not sure that losing the brake ducting is a wise move as it'll just transfer the problem.

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[Gambit]

Yes agree. Just not even sure there is another alternative route to the wheel well with the way his particular setup is mounted.

 

[Vito.FL5]

Ok, I have a couple things to add to the topic.

FInally I could go to the track and not overheat at any time. I didn´t do several laps in a row because my car is heading towards being a time attack car at this point so it doesn´t even make sense to waste expensive slick tires and brake pads and fuel etc.

As I mentioned at other times, I have an extensive list of mods that include:

PWR Track rad.
Hel Oil cooler kit.
Dedicated transmission radiator.
vented hood.

Now.. Every of this bits helped a lot in the cooling, specially the hood. It came last and made everything make sense because now the car cools A LOT better, and when temps rise to an uncofrtable zone, they drop from 220F (wich is as high as it gets after 2 laps under 100+ ambient temps and 160+ track temps) to 180F in 1 cool down lap.

There are also aspects of how the system is routed that are not helpful at all, I made some changes on my setup but I will not focus on this now because I have mentioned it other times.

Also keep in mind I run a 400whp tune with a 450whp booster (I can get to how I did that later) so the car has a lot of power (from a 275whp baseline)

BUT, AND A BIG BUT.
What makes a BIG difference and is ofter overlooked is... THE TUNE! Yes, the tune...

It´s not new to anyone that the big issue our cars have is the integrated exhaust manifold that captures a lot of the exhaust energy and put it in the coolant. So every strategy that you can apply to lower the EGT´s will show big results.

My advice:

Run as much ethanol as your fuel system can provide, and as rich as you are confortable going.

In my case I run E50 blend at .77 lambda at anything above 130% load in my track tune. I also run a very aggressive timing map that helps a lot keeping EGT´s inder control.

Also for those of you who use Hondata, never forget lowering the cat protection temperature to a much lower value than stock. I run around 800F on my tune to make sure that on every press of the gas pedal the car will move out of lambda 1 and make the AFRs go down quickly.

It´s important to select this option when running low cat prot temps otherwise the car will be pulling boost at all times.

an example of how rich I run on the track tune:



don´t forget to adjust the fans to your taste

Also a good practice is to make sure your boost tappers towards the end, to let the wastegate open a little bit more up top to keep exhaust pressure down, thus lowering exhaust temperature.

My reccomendation for a track tune is around 22psi tapering to 15-16 psi up top, on a stock turbo.

I run 18 psi flat most of the time but my turbo is very efficient so it´s enough to make close to 400whp on E50.



bonus:

 

[Jester04]

Ok, I have a couple things to add to the topic.

FInally I could go to the track and not overheat at any time. I didn´t do several laps in a row because my car is heading towards being a time attack car at this point so it doesn´t even make sense to waste expensive slick tires and brake pads and fuel etc.

As I mentioned at other times, I have an extensive list of mods that include:

PWR Track rad.
Hel Oil cooler kit.
Dedicated transmission radiator.
vented hood.

Now.. Every of this bits helped a lot in the cooling, specially the hood. It came last and made everything make sense because now the car cools A LOT better, and when temps rise to an uncofrtable zone, they drop from 220F (wich is as high as it gets after 2 laps under 100+ ambient temps and 160+ track temps) to 180F in 1 cool down lap.

There are also aspects of how the system is routed that are not helpful at all, I made some changes on my setup but I will not focus on this now because I have mentioned it other times.

Also keep in mind I run a 400whp tune with a 450whp booster (I can get to how I did that later) so the car has a lot of power (from a 275whp baseline)

BUT, AND A BIG BUT.
What makes a BIG difference and is ofter overlooked is... THE TUNE! Yes, the tune...

It´s not new to anyone that the big issue our cars have is the integrated exhaust manifold that captures a lot of the exhaust energy and put it in the coolant. So every strategy that you can apply to lower the EGT´s will show big results.

My advice:

Run as much ethanol as your fuel system can provide, and as rich as you are confortable going.

In my case I run E50 blend at .77 lambda at anything above 130% load in my track tune. I also run a very aggressive timing map that helps a lot keeping EGT´s inder control.

Also for those of you who use Hondata, never forget lowering the cat protection temperature to a much lower value than stock. I run around 800F on my tune to make sure that on every press of the gas pedal the car will move out of lambda 1 and make the AFRs go down quickly.

It´s important to select this option when running low cat prot temps otherwise the car will be pulling boost at all times.

an example of how rich I run on the track tune:



don´t forget to adjust the fans to your taste

Also a good practice is to make sure your boost tappers towards the end, to let the wastegate open a little bit more up top to keep exhaust pressure down, thus lowering exhaust temperature.

My reccomendation for a track tune is around 22psi tapering to 15-16 psi up top, on a stock turbo.

I run 18 psi flat most of the time but my turbo is very efficient so it´s enough to make close to 400whp on E50.



bonus:

Great to see you post some extra data again like always. We will be chatting up again very soon. Also to add to what @Vito.FL5 said, ambient temps play a big role in the way that the car dissipates heat. And that is why I’m also always saying to remove your rain guard to maximize airflow in the engine bay in the event you have a stock hood and not an extremely vented one like he is running.

 

[siwelnosaj]

I'll be going to Thunderhill East on 9/20 to finally get to test my dual oil cooler and secondary radiator on track. Ambient temps should be warm (likely getting close to or into the 90s) so it'll be a good day for collecting data. I'll be sure to let everyone know how it all goes good or bad.

 

[svvitch]

Ok, I have a couple things to add to the topic.

FInally I could go to the track and not overheat at any time. I didn´t do several laps in a row because my car is heading towards being a time attack car at this point so it doesn´t even make sense to waste expensive slick tires and brake pads and fuel etc.

As I mentioned at other times, I have an extensive list of mods that include:

PWR Track rad.
Hel Oil cooler kit.
Dedicated transmission radiator.
vented hood.

Now.. Every of this bits helped a lot in the cooling, specially the hood. It came last and made everything make sense because now the car cools A LOT better, and when temps rise to an uncofrtable zone, they drop from 220F (wich is as high as it gets after 2 laps under 100+ ambient temps and 160+ track temps) to 180F in 1 cool down lap.

There are also aspects of how the system is routed that are not helpful at all, I made some changes on my setup but I will not focus on this now because I have mentioned it other times.

Also keep in mind I run a 400whp tune with a 450whp booster (I can get to how I did that later) so the car has a lot of power (from a 275whp baseline)

BUT, AND A BIG BUT.
What makes a BIG difference and is ofter overlooked is... THE TUNE! Yes, the tune...

It´s not new to anyone that the big issue our cars have is the integrated exhaust manifold that captures a lot of the exhaust energy and put it in the coolant. So every strategy that you can apply to lower the EGT´s will show big results.

My advice:

Run as much ethanol as your fuel system can provide, and as rich as you are confortable going.

In my case I run E50 blend at .77 lambda at anything above 130% load in my track tune. I also run a very aggressive timing map that helps a lot keeping EGT´s inder control.

Also for those of you who use Hondata, never forget lowering the cat protection temperature to a much lower value than stock. I run around 800F on my tune to make sure that on every press of the gas pedal the car will move out of lambda 1 and make the AFRs go down quickly.

It´s important to select this option when running low cat prot temps otherwise the car will be pulling boost at all times.

an example of how rich I run on the track tune:



don´t forget to adjust the fans to your taste

Also a good practice is to make sure your boost tappers towards the end, to let the wastegate open a little bit more up top to keep exhaust pressure down, thus lowering exhaust temperature.

My reccomendation for a track tune is around 22psi tapering to 15-16 psi up top, on a stock turbo.

I run 18 psi flat most of the time but my turbo is very efficient so it´s enough to make close to 400whp on E50.



bonus:

I am not near as technical as I used to be on tuning (it's been 20 years) but I appreciate you sharing the data behind what is working. It's so easy to say XYZ works but having some actual data with examples helps. Thanks!

 

[Vito.FL5]

I am not near as technical as I used to be on tuning (it's been 20 years) but I appreciate you sharing the data behind what is working. It's so easy to say XYZ works but having some actual data with examples helps. Thanks!

Honda forums were good to me in the past. Doesn´t hurt to help others when I can

 

[Dennis]

Hi Vito,
i'm overstretching your suggestions if I assume that, in a stock FL5, tuning for lowering the high emissions-related EGT is more effective (or should be prioritised) than bolting on additional coolers?

 

[Vito.FL5]

Hi Vito,
i'm overstretching your suggestions if I assume that, in a stock FL5, tuning for lowering the high emissions-related EGT is more effective (or should be prioritised) than bolting on additional coolers?

I´d say you are overstretching a bit lol.

But the tuning plays a big big role. If you have no other mods, start with tuning it properly for the track. Then go on with the other mods later.

 

[Vito.FL5]

A bit off topic but still relevant:

I added an ECT2 sensor to the transmission cooler line. Let´s see how hot it gets

 

[Jester04]

This is the main reason on my track tunes I run a richer AFR especially up top to help keep everything cool. The EGT’s in these cars sky rocket due to the head design. And like @Vito.FL5 said adding ethanol really helps in that department.

Also adding timing up top as the boost falls helps keep power but at the same time reducing EGT’s.

 

[siwelnosaj]

This is the main reason on my track tunes I run a richer AFR especially up top to help keep everything cool. The EGT’s in these cars sky rocket due to the head design. And like @Vito.FL5 said adding ethanol really helps in that department.

Also adding timing up top as the boost falls helps keep power but at the same time reducing EGT’s.

What afr do you target in the higher rpm's?

 

[Jester04]

What afr do you target in the higher rpm's?

Depends on the setup of the car, but around 11.7-11.8 afr or 0.80-0.78 lambda around there.

 

[siwelnosaj]

Depends on the setup of the car, but around 11.7-11.8 afr or 0.78 lambda around there.

Thank you

 

[svvitch]

In the testing of multiple FK8 and FL5 vehicles in various regions, the use of multi-channel radiators can greatly solve the overheating of the engine, and the use of the track can add additional low temperature thermostat and adjust the starting Settings of the cooling fan

What kind or brand of multi channel radiators have you tried? Interested ?

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