Big willow track days and temp issues

[siwelnosaj]

Im waiting for casale to reply. I asked if they sell it.

I have a track day next week but im thinking of running the R only 1 session and bring my other car. I will assume itll hit that 250f temp on 4 to 5 sessions. I dont want to push it after that. 300f the R goes limp mode after a min or 2. Im not sure what is the long term effect after that.

When they were asked earlier they said they don't plan to sell them but if there was a group purchase of 10 or more sets they would do it.

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[RacingIsLife]

@siwelnosaj - Oh damn, you're THE legendary Jason Lewis, Gridzilla's friend. Damn, I'm gonna copy everything you do then LOL. Saw his video where you and him chatted about your FK8 and learned a lot from it. Thank you so much for sharing in depth info. Your solution is very, very well thought out.

@BuntaTypeR - Before I knew much about oil coolers, I installed a Mishimoto dual cooler on my EVO X. It's important to note that it's functioned flawlessly on both street and track use. In preparation for adding oil coolers to my BRZ, Forester XT, and FL5, I purchased Evil Energy and G Plus 19-row oil coolers for comparison. Honestly, the cores seem identical to the Mishimoto ones. My conclusion is, if brand recognition isn't a priority, consider Evil Energy or G Plus for significant savings compared to Mishimoto. For the price of a Mishimoto cooler, you could explore higher-end proven racing brands like Setrab or Earl's. Mishimoto's strategy appears to be acquiring Chinese-made products, branding them, and selling them at a premium.

Another example, the Mishimoto FK8/FL5 catch can looks to be a rebranded Bull Boost catch can at nearly double the price. There are even cheaper versions available on Amazon for around $30, including the generic mounting bracket. Not shaming, just pointing out what's obvious to the naked eye. I myself use the Bull Boost can, intended for the FK8, and it works great. After 3,000 miles, my intercooler has no signs of oil, and it does catch enough oil to pour out every 2k miles or so.

 

[siwelnosaj]

@siwelnosaj - Oh damn, you're THE legendary Jason Lewis, Gridzilla's friend. Damn, I'm gonna copy everything you do then LOL. Saw his video where you and him chatted about your FK8 and learned a lot from it. Thank you so much for sharing in depth info. Your solution is very, very well thought out.

@BuntaTypeR - Before I knew much about oil coolers, I installed a Mishimoto dual cooler on my EVO X. It's important to note that it's functioned flawlessly on both street and track use. In preparation for adding oil coolers to my BRZ, Forester XT, and FL5, I purchased Evil Energy and G Plus 19-row oil coolers for comparison. Honestly, the cores seem identical to the Mishimoto ones. My conclusion is, if brand recognition isn't a priority, consider Evil Energy or G Plus for significant savings compared to Mishimoto. For the price of a Mishimoto cooler, you could explore higher-end proven racing brands like Setrab or Earl's. Mishimoto's strategy appears to be acquiring Chinese-made products, branding them, and selling them at a premium.

Another example, the Mishimoto FK8/FL5 catch can looks to be a rebranded Bull Boost catch can at nearly double the price. There are even cheaper versions available on Amazon for around $30, including the generic mounting bracket. Not shaming, just pointing out what's obvious to the naked eye. I myself use the Bull Boost can, intended for the FK8, and it works great. After 3,000 miles, my intercooler has no signs of oil, and it does catch enough oil to pour out every 2k miles or so.

Yeah unfortunately the day of that video was the last day for the fk8 (RIP), ended up in a wall due to an error on my part. Luckily I had track insurance and was able to get into the fl5 only 4 days later.

My goal since has been to get the fl5 back to a similar place to what the fk8 was at, a big part of which was the cooling solutions I had in place.

I think I might (hopefully) get this car to an even better place overall and with the cooling, but we won't really know until I get back on track (hopefully soon). I'm sure there will be some things to iron out here or there but I think we're going to be pretty close out of the gate.

At any rate, I just want to help solve this problem and help others to do the same, so fingers crossed that with our collective efforts we can make it happen (I think we will).

 

[keller]

Only going off based Honda's water temp reading, which I thought was actual? It's the Honda Oil temp that is calculated. I do have a Glowshift dual oil temp / pressure gauge I'm going to wire up in time for August track days.

Been thinking about my setup, and what I need to revise:

- Add the brake cooler tubes back, may have to connect with silicone hose to route around the new coolers

- Open up the fake vents on both sides of the front bumper and have them serve as air intakes to the side mounted coolers. Open up the fenders and mount vents like @siwelnosaj

- Install the CSF radiator I have sitting

- If possible, I'll add another Setrab oil cooler core in the same position on the left. Have a dual oil cooler setup, mounted in series.

Want this thing to survive the Lemans 24 hours basically LOL. Once I can get water temp at 215 F max, and oil under 240 F max, I'll then have @Jester04 do a tune for me.

Took a screen shot of peak temps right as my brakes went to shit. Man that oil pressure a little low for my liking, was running Kirkland 5w30. In with the Quaker State 5w40 next time!

Water temp is actual yes.

I'd suggest to mount the dual oil cooler setup in parallel though. The heat transfer is more efficient (larger temp difference overall) and you get a smaller pressure drop. A greddy sandwich plate helps with that.

 

[Tougefl5]

Looks like a single oil cooler (blue) and either a transmission cooler or auxiliary radiator (silver)

The quafe sequential transmission has given a lot of guys trouble this year. Spoon has dropped out of a race because of it. You're most likely correct.

 

[siwelnosaj]

The quafe sequential transmission has given a lot of guys trouble this year. Spoon has dropped out of a race because of it. You're most likely correct.

It caused them problems at the Thill 25h race. I think they went through a couple of them.

 

[RacingIsLife]

Here's a picture... Up top is a G-Plus 16 row cooler, directly below is a 19 row Mishi cooler. Look at the rows, see how they are "open" all the way to the end tanks? Now look at the cooler on the right, it's an Earl's core. Notice towards the end tank the rows crimp in together. Setrab is like this too, exactly. What's more, if you look at the mounting brackets for the coolers, the Mishi, G-Plus, and Evil Energy brackets are all interchangeable. The Setrab and Earl's are also interchangeable. Again, just observations.

If I could do it again, I'd use the CSF cores that @siwelnosaj used, due to optimized mounting / space / AN fitting placement / hose routing. What's more, I remember Mike Kojima of Moto IQ doing a video with CSF about it, and concluded it was an excellent core type. Here's the vid:



Now I gotta figure out how to do a parallel setup. I may do series only cause its easiest. Someone smarter than me should give insight how to plumb a parallel setup lol

 

[siwelnosaj]

Here's a picture... Up top is a G-Plus 16 row cooler, directly below is a 19 row Mishi cooler. Look at the rows, see how they are "open" all the way to the end tanks? Now look at the cooler on the right, it's an Earl's core. Notice towards the end tank the rows crimp in together. Setrab is like this too, exactly. What's more, if you look at the mounting brackets for the coolers, the Mishi, G-Plus, and Evil Energy brackets are all interchangeable. The Setrab and Earl's are also interchangeable. Again, just observations.

If I could do it again, I'd use the CSF cores that @siwelnosaj used, due to optimized mounting / space / AN fitting placement / hose routing. What's more, I remember Mike Kojima of Moto IQ doing a video with CSF about it, and concluded it was an excellent core type. Here's the vid:



Now I gotta figure out how to do a parallel setup. I may do series only cause its easiest. Someone smarter than me should give insight how to plumb a parallel setup lol

What are your thoughts on parallel vs series?

 

[Tougefl5]

Here's a picture... Up top is a G-Plus 16 row cooler, directly below is a 19 row Mishi cooler. Look at the rows, see how they are "open" all the way to the end tanks? Now look at the cooler on the right, it's an Earl's core. Notice towards the end tank the rows crimp in together. Setrab is like this too, exactly. What's more, if you look at the mounting brackets for the coolers, the Mishi, G-Plus, and Evil Energy brackets are all interchangeable. The Setrab and Earl's are also interchangeable. Again, just observations.

If I could do it again, I'd use the CSF cores that @siwelnosaj used, due to optimized mounting / space / AN fitting placement / hose routing. What's more, I remember Mike Kojima of Moto IQ doing a video with CSF about it, and concluded it was an excellent core type. Here's the vid:



Now I gotta figure out how to do a parallel setup. I may do series only cause its easiest. Someone smarter than me should give insight how to plumb a parallel setup lol

Earl's makes great products. I've used them for lots of things.
Mike Kojima has a incredible motorsports mind.

I never had a good feeling about mishimoto products. CSF is pretty decent however I believe they supply prl intercooler core.
However I don't really like prl products lol

 

[RacingIsLife]

What are your thoughts on parallel vs series?

What do you run, Jason?

I asked Gemini, and this is what it told me LOL. Parallel seems to be the way to go.

Parallel vs. Series Oil Cooler Mounting
There are advantages and disadvantages to both parallel and series mounting of oil coolers, each affecting oil temperature control differently. Here's a breakdown:

Parallel Mounting:

• Pros:
  • Increased Cooling Capacity: By adding another cooler, you effectively increase the total cooling surface area, leading to greater heat dissipation and lower oil temperatures.
  • Reduced Pressure Drop: Oil flow is split between the coolers, reducing the overall resistance in the system. This can be beneficial if the oil pump isn't designed for a high-resistance setup.
  • Less Prone to Overcooling: In cold climates, a single cooler might overcool the oil. Parallel coolers allow some warmer oil to bypass the additional cooler, maintaining a more optimal operating temperature.
• Cons:
  • Uneven Flow (Potential): If the coolers have different flow resistances, oil might favor the path of least resistance, reducing effectiveness of the cooler with higher resistance. This is less of an issue with identical coolers.

Series Mounting:

• Pros:
  • Greater Temperature Drop (Potentially): Oil travels through each cooler sequentially, allowing each cooler to extract more heat as the oil temperature progressively gets lower. This can be beneficial for extreme applications.
• Cons:
  • Lower Overall Cooling Capacity: The second cooler only works on oil pre-cooled by the first cooler, limiting its overall effectiveness.
  • Increased Pressure Drop: Oil has to flow through both coolers in series, increasing resistance and potentially putting a strain on the oil pump if not designed for it.
  • Overheating Risk in Colder Climates: With both coolers working in sequence, there's a higher chance of the oil getting overcooled in cold weather.

Choosing the Right Setup:

• Parallel is generally preferred: It offers increased cooling capacity without excessive pressure drop and reduces the risk of overcooling. This is ideal for most performance applications.
• Series might be considered for: Extreme racing situations where the absolute lowest oil temperature is critical. However, ensure the oil pump can handle the increased pressure and consider potential overcooling in colder climates.

Additional factors:

• Cooler size and efficiency: Identical coolers in parallel will provide the most balanced performance.
• Oil pump capacity: Ensure your oil pump can handle the additional pressure drop of series mounting.

 

[Rhorn]

Here's a picture... Up top is a G-Plus 16 row cooler, directly below is a 19 row Mishi cooler. Look at the rows, see how they are "open" all the way to the end tanks? Now look at the cooler on the right, it's an Earl's core. Notice towards the end tank the rows crimp in together. Setrab is like this too, exactly. What's more, if you look at the mounting brackets for the coolers, the Mishi, G-Plus, and Evil Energy brackets are all interchangeable. The Setrab and Earl's are also interchangeable. Again, just observations.

If I could do it again, I'd use the CSF cores that @siwelnosaj used, due to optimized mounting / space / AN fitting placement / hose routing. What's more, I remember Mike Kojima of Moto IQ doing a video with CSF about it, and concluded it was an excellent core type. Here's the vid:



Now I gotta figure out how to do a parallel setup. I may do series only cause its easiest. Someone smarter than me should give insight how to plumb a parallel setup lol

Is there something about the designs that makes one objectively better? I get that some are made for space so a smaller one is going to probably have a less cooling effect than a bigger one but was wondering if there is a difference in material that matters or is it simply just more rows = more cooling effect (in theory, since you need airflow)

 

[keller]

Now I gotta figure out how to do a parallel setup. I may do series only cause its easiest.

A parallel setup provides the best heat transfer. Likewise, always prefer single pass radiators instead of double pass.

Get a greddy sandwich plate with spare AN -10 ports. The parallel connection is built in - just route everything to the sandwich plate.

From https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/jeffs-build-for-occasional-light-track-use.51054/

 

[RacingIsLife]

A parallel setup provides the best heat transfer. Likewise, always prefer single pass radiators instead of double pass.

Get a greddy sandwich plate with spare AN -10 ports. The parallel connection is built in - just route everything to the sandwich plate.

From https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/jeffs-build-for-occasional-light-track-use.51054/

NO SHIT... damn that's slick as fork. The HEL is the same as the Greddy sandwich plate.... good to know! Thanks!

@Rhorn - In general, Mishi, G-Plus, Evil Energy are Chinese products, you won't find pro teams using those cores LOL. Setrab and Earl's you'll see pro teams / higher end kits use.

Regarding oil cooler core configuration and how it affects cooling performance and pressure loss, here's a good read, lots of good info here: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=tech00133

 

[BuntaTypeR]

I have a Setrab oil cooler in my other car, and it comes with a built-in fan. It's fantastic because you can switch the fan on manually, allowing it to cool before the temperature gets too high.

I keep it on before the track and even after.

In my FL5, I have a HEL thermostatic oil cooler.HEL Performance Multi Angled Billet thermostatic sandwich plate set at 92°C (197.6°F) . I can’t even tell if it’s working. Maybe it is, but it doesn't seem to be effective enough to prevent the oil from overheating. Given the cost, I'm not sure it’s worth it if it doesn’t resolve the heating issue.

 

[siwelnosaj]

NO SHIT... damn that's slick as fork. The HEL is the same as the Greddy sandwich plate.... good to know! Thanks!

@Rhorn - In general, Mishi, G-Plus, Evil Energy are Chinese products, you won't find pro teams using those cores LOL. Setrab and Earl's you'll see pro teams / higher end kits use.

Regarding oil cooler core configuration and how it affects cooling performance and pressure loss, here's a good read, lots of good info here: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=tech00133

Good info on the link

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