🔴💊 Engine Oil Red Pill Thread: Only Post If You Have UOA - Official Honda Civic Type R K20C1 Engine Oil Analysis

[Spart]

That maybe is the best solution to keep engine temps down on a stock engine + maximum power + sustain best protection.

Maybe if we're using this mat:

In reality - what range does a 5W-30 shear to when it shears out of range? And which end of that new range will it end up in?

How does this in any way support the hypothesis that 5W20 "sustains the best protection" all else being equal?

You're also ignoring a lot of key bits of info from that video, such as when Lake specifically points out that xW-20 oils that have sheared out of grade will (on average) cause increased wear, whereas xW-30 oils that have sheared out of grade do not see an increase in wear.

In fact, looking at that chart, it seems like xW-30 oils are actually the breaking point for shear stability being important for stable wear protection. Once you go below xW-30 to xW-20, it becomes critically important that the oil stay in grade. xW-30 and above, not important.

So let's revisit that chart you posted. It showed that 43.1% of 5W-30's will shear out of grade, where only 1.3% of 5W-20's will shear out of grade.

Sounds like a big W for 5W-20 until you combine those two facts and realize this means that 1.3% of 5W-20's will cause increased wear due to shearing out of grade, while 0% of 5W-30's will cause increased wear due to shearing out of grade. Then it becomes a W for 5W-20 if you put the facts together.

Further, if you look at the chart that you didn't post:

This is important because 0W-20 is the factory fill and cap recommendation for these cars, so it will be most people's point of reference. So now we're at 14.5% of 0W-20's causing increased wear due to shearing out of grade, whereas (again) 0% of 0W-30's will cause increased wear due to shearing out of grade.

So if you want the "best protection" - seek a 0W-30 or 5W-30 and worry not about whether your oil is shearing out of grade.

 

[Rhorn]

0W-20 vs 5w-30 Lakespeed Junior Latest



Sheer Stability is the most important and running that oil while it's within spec.

Looks like 5W-20 is the most stable. Index viscosity modifiers are the enemy. The closer the numbers are before the W and after, the better the stability of the oil - it has less index viscosity modifiers which shear very fast.

That maybe is the best solution to keep engine temps down on a stock engine + maximum power + sustain best protection.

Saying that 5W20 is the most stable isnt really relevant here since we are talking about individual oils here.

You can easily find a 5W30 oil or above that resists sheering and the engine will be properly lubricated when it sheers down. You dont have the extra wiggle room with a 5W20. If you were to find one that resists sheering like Mobil 1 ESP X4 0W40 you would be fine.

 

[Rhorn]

I recently did a VOA for Mobil 1 ESP 5W30

I also did M1 ESP 0W30 because that should have a higher cSt rating. I plan to go to M1 0W40 on my next oil change because it will have a higher viscosity rating and strong resistance to sheering.

 

[johnloov]

Good valid points everyone - let’s stick with the data. Agreed sheer stability really depends on the formulation of the motor oil so far from everything we’ve tested Motul Power stayed within viscosity grade extremely well.

 

[johnloov]

I thought a 0W 40 shears faster as it has much more viscosity index improvers to be able to cold flow like a zero but be as thick as a 40.. Correct ?

 

[Ktrw]

I thought a 0W 40 shears faster as it has much more viscosity index improvers to be able to cold flow like a zero but be as thick as a 40.. Correct ?

That is correct. A 0W-40 is typically not going to resist shear well, as Lake said in his recent video. It will be able to stay at or above a 20 grade for a good amount of time though, which is likely one of the reasons it's chosen for racing applications using the K20C. Depending on the OCI, it could stay in the 40 grade range too, but I would probably only run that in long endurance races or high horsepower builds. I looked into potentially running 0W-40 PUP but it's just a bit too thick for my application.

Lake also made a video a while back comparing 0W-40 oils for Porsche applications and there are a good amount of Mobil 1 0W-40 formulations that are rather poor in shear performance. It's just asking a lot from the oil in terms of shear stability to flow well cold and still have a decent hot viscosity.

 

[Spart]

I thought a 0W 40 shears faster as it has much more viscosity index improvers to be able to cold flow like a zero but be as thick as a 40.. Correct ?

Again, shears to what?

What grade does a xW-30 land in when it shears out of grade?

What grade does a xW-40 land in when it shears out of grade?

Is the fact that an oil shears important, or the fact that it maintains adequate performance for your application?

If you want to pick an oil based on shear resistance alone, get a 10W-30.

 

[Rhorn]

Lake also made a video a while back comparing 0W-40 oils for Porsche applications and there are a good amount of Mobil 1 0W-40 formulations that are rather poor in shear performance. It's just asking a lot from the oil in terms of shear stability to flow well cold and still have a decent hot viscosity.

Motor Geek made a similar video and for the Mobile 1 0W40 formulatioms and only the ESP and C40 GT (Formulation for Porsche GT Cars) had very good resistance to sheering so I'm not sure what the difference is from Lake. The Euro FS had sheered alot.

 

[Rhorn]

I thought a 0W 40 shears faster as it has much more viscosity index improvers to be able to cold flow like a zero but be as thick as a 40.. Correct ?

Depends on specific blend of the oil. You can have 0W40 oil thats has more to sheer stability capabilities, and other that doesn't. Same with other grades like 5W30. I really dont think its accurate to make blanket statements like that.

There isn't a need to generalize a whole oil grade where there are oil companies designing oil in different grades specifically for sheer stability like Driven Racing Oil (Honda Ultimate 0W20 isn't one).

 

[Spart]

The Euro FS had sheered alot.

I run M1 0W-40 ECF (Euro Car Formula) knowing full well that it will shear into a thick 0W-30, and there's nothing wrong with a thick 0W-30.

It's cheap, available, and it works. I run it in my Tacoma and in the LS3 in our tailgating van as well.

Shear is only a problem if it puts you into a viscosity range you don't expect.

 

[johnloov]

Please record engine water temps on track if you are running a stock engine. My targets are not to exceed ideal temps - so far max temps —212F ( honda ultimate 0w-20 7.99 cst at 100c ) and 217F( penzoil ultra platinum 0w20 ~ 8.3-4 cst 100c ) at COTA ~ same ambient temp full out on advanced sessions.

Let’s always factor in application and setup of car.

 

[Rhorn]

My VOA for ESP 0W30.

The cSt and SUS values and even averages are higher indicating a thicker oil than the 5W30 despite it being a 'thinner' 0W oil.

I dont have any UOA data on the ESP 5W30 but I wouldn't be suprised if the ESP 0W30 has more sheer stability the 5W30.

Im attaching both VOAs for reference

 

[Spart]

The cSt and SUS values and even averages are higher indicating a thicker oil than the 5W30 despite it being a 'thinner' 0W oil.

The 0W does not imply that the oil should be thinner than 5W at those temperatures. (210°F and 100°C.)

Those viscosities on your Blackstone report are measured at operating temp, which for a multigrade oil (anything yyW-xx) is the viscosity that the second part of an SAE oil grade is intended to convey, in this case the "30".

The 0W indicates that the oil flows better when extremely cold than a 5W would. Blackstone does not test for this, and so your report will not show the difference between 0W-30 and 5W-30 that you're looking for.

 

[jdezee]

1. Oil Brand and Viscosity: Motul 8100 Eco-Lite 5w30
2. Miles on Oil: ~2500
3. Track Use or Street Use (or mix): Street only
4. Engine Temp Ranges Observed: Never exceeded 210 oil temps
5. Modifications: PRL Intake, Mishimoto PCV Catch Can, Stock Exhaust with Dual resonator delete.
6. UOA Report Screenshot or Attachment: Screenshot below
7. Optional: Oil changed generally every 3k or less. average 2500-3000 miles on oil.

 

[johnloov]

Great data, keep it coming !

Sponsored