Honda Confirms 2022 Civic Si Will Be Sedan Only

[staylurkn]

OT:

It's coming...

Cheaper and faster than an NSX in Exhibition class:

Tbh, the NSX is probably the least impressive supercar in the world, so no tall feat to beat one. The Plaids acceleration is insane, but how fast is a stock one on track? And how engaging is it to drive?

Warp mode:

 

[staylurkn]

I wonder if this is coming to NA with hatchback production?


https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/civic/355134/new-honda-civic-type-r-sport-line-2021-review

Honda usually keeps the trims on a low to keep its residuals up. Hence why used Si’s and Type R’s hold value so well.

 

[jd2157]

I don’t think 11th gen needs a toned down Type R. I think we’ll just get one trim with Bose or some kind up upgraded stereo and digital dash.

I’d love a trim with 19” wheels and no spoiler, would be an awesome sleeper, but no chance IMO.

It’s about filling the gap between the Si and the Type R. There’s a lot room wrt horsepower between the two.

It’s highly unlikely the Sport Line will come sure, but there’s a market for a CTR without that wing, all that red, huge wheels, and all that power (but keeping the 2.0). Especially with no Si hatchback.

They need to use that 2.0 in more of their compact vehicles. Hopefully Acura will…

 

[DmhCmh]

I'll second that! If nothing else, the Si's LSD is arguably THE single most important component. All the other differences are incremental, but the LSD fundamentally changes how the vehicle is propelled. The wheel spin in the Accord 2.0T and FWD RDX is almost as comical as FWD Mazda's with the 2.5T.

Agreed, you definitely need to feather the throttle from a stop, and even up to about 30 mph in some situations.

 

[VarmintCong]

I'll second that! If nothing else, the Si's LSD is arguably THE single most important component. All the other differences are incremental, but the LSD fundamentally changes how the vehicle is propelled. The wheel spin in the Accord 2.0T and FWD RDX is almost as comical as FWD Mazda's with the 2.5T.

Yeah it’s made me swear off FWD cars with open diff like the Mazda3 6mT hatch, which would be pretty awesome otherwise.

I want to put summer tires on the Si to see what that’s like.

 

[Aero2001]

my theory is Honda doesn’t want to have to make huge volumes of Si’s cause it’s probably not very profitable, that’s why they don’t bother developing an auto.

It seems like Honda is committed to the 10AT and CVT as their automatics, with the Civics having only the CVT which would be a horrible match for the Si and unappealing to the Si's enthusiast market. I'm not sure about the 10AT, but maybe it's only suitable for larger vehicles/engines, which is where it's been used. That could be another reason they don't bother. (I have liked the 10AT in the Accord and 2G TLX.)

I'm disappointed they haven't tried Acura's 8DCT, which they did test with the 1.5T, even letting some journalists drive it. I was very impressed with that transmission when I drove an early 1G TLX, and think it could be great in the Si.

One advantage could be improved highway fuel economy. With the manual, rpm needs to stay relatively high in top gear for some passing power, but the DCT could have a taller top gear.

 

[panpan1]

Honestly hate that the Si won’t have a DCT/CVT option. Atlanta traffic is truly not the place for a stick.

I hear you. I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area. Even with the pandemic, during commute time, which seems like 5 AM - 9 PM these days, driving a stick is a pain in the a@@. I sold my WRX and got an Accord 2.0T Sport with the 10 sp. auto. 2.0T and 10 sp are a great combination. I was hoping for that in the new Si. I guess I'll have to pass on it.

 

[Aero2001]

I recently tested a new Elantra N-Line, a direct competitor to the Si, and it shed light on the Honda's LSD and lack of an automatic/DCT option.

First, the Hyundai's lack of an LSD is immediately obvious when giving it the boot, and is a huge disadvantage relative to the Si. Hyundai should add one ASAP, and I seriously doubt the target enthusiast market would mind the slight extra cost. (It desperately needs a better stereo too. Yikes. I thought the stereo in the last Si was quite good, especially for the car's low price.)

Second, while Hyundai's DCT has some issues, especially when left in automatic mode, I think it's a good proof of concept for a DCT in the Civic Si. In my short drive, I mostly had problems with the transmission when accelerating slightly hard off the line. Once underway, it was much better, especially in manual mode, which provided reasonably quick shifts. It was fun, and a Civic Si with a good DCT would be great. Plus, I think the torque converter in Acura's 8DCT might cure the off-the-line issues I noticed in the Hyundai. Honda should do it.

I've been a die-hard MT driver for decades, and I never thought I'd advocate for an automatic in any enthusiast-oriented car, but I've just about had enough. My left knee has some problems, and the traffic around Philly has become so oppressive that I rarely enjoy MT the way I used to.

I'll probably go electric for my next car anyway, in which case MT is out of the question.

 

[VarmintCong]

I recently tested a new Elantra N-Line, a direct competitor to the Si, and it shed light on the Honda's LSD and lack of an automatic/DCT option.

First, the Hyundai's lack of an LSD is immediately obvious when giving it the boot, and is a huge disadvantage relative to the Si. Hyundai should add one ASAP, and I seriously doubt the target enthusiast market would mind the slight extra cost. (It desperately needs a better stereo too. Yikes. I thought the stereo in the last Si was quite good, especially for the car's low price.)

Second, while Hyundai's DCT has some issues, especially when left in automatic mode, I think it's a good proof of concept for a DCT in the Civic Si. In my short drive, I mostly had problems with the transmission when accelerating slightly hard off the line. Once underway, it was much better, especially in manual mode, which provided reasonably quick shifts. It was fun, and a Civic Si with a good DCT would be great. Plus, I think the torque converter in Acura's 8DCT might cure the off-the-line issues I noticed in the Hyundai. Honda should do it.

I've been a die-hard MT driver for decades, and I never thought I'd advocate for an automatic in any enthusiast-oriented car, but I've just about had enough. My left knee has some problems, and the traffic around Philly has become so oppressive that I rarely enjoy MT the way I used to.

I'll probably go electric for my next car anyway, in which case MT is out of the question.

Kona N sounds good for you.

Ive argued the LSD should be standard on regular 1.5T Civics but was shouted down by the one wheel peel fans on the forum.

 

[jtrader]

Kona N sounds good for you.

Ive argued the LSD should be standard on regular 1.5T Civics but was shouted down by the one wheel peel fans on the forum.

Granted I'm in my 40's, but I can not remember in the past several years ever thinking to myself "self, this car would be so much better with an LSD!" I am heavy footed but I never one wheel peel, and I take the twisties at sometimes dangerous speeds and the car pulls right out of it. It's an absolute blast to drive, as is!!!

edit: Maybe if I had the 6MT I would feel differently. Maybe the CVT takes some of the edge off of not having an LSD. Again, even with the stupid CVT, it's still super fun to drive. (The paddle shifters help the overall experience to keep the revs up while driving hard)

 

[VarmintCong]

Granted I'm in my 40's, but I can not remember in the past several years ever thinking to myself "self, this car would be so much better with an LSD!" I am heavy footed but I never one wheel peel, and I take the twisties at sometimes dangerous speeds and the car pulls right out of it. It's an absolute blast to drive, as is!!!

edit: Maybe if I had the 6MT I would feel differently. Maybe the CVT takes some of the edge off of not having an LSD. Again, even with the stupid CVT, it's still super fun to drive. (The paddle shifters help the overall experience to keep the revs up while driving hard)

Yeah CVT might reduce wheel spin not sure but it’s a low speed phenomenon really and more an issue in rain or snow. Like turning left or right from a stop on wet pavement.

 

[KoukiVAB]

I recently tested a new Elantra N-Line, a direct competitor to the Si, and it shed light on the Honda's LSD and lack of an automatic/DCT option.

First, the Hyundai's lack of an LSD is immediately obvious when giving it the boot, and is a huge disadvantage relative to the Si. Hyundai should add one ASAP, and I seriously doubt the target enthusiast market would mind the slight extra cost. (It desperately needs a better stereo too. Yikes. I thought the stereo in the last Si was quite good, especially for the car's low price.)

Second, while Hyundai's DCT has some issues, especially when left in automatic mode, I think it's a good proof of concept for a DCT in the Civic Si. In my short drive, I mostly had problems with the transmission when accelerating slightly hard off the line. Once underway, it was much better, especially in manual mode, which provided reasonably quick shifts. It was fun, and a Civic Si with a good DCT would be great. Plus, I think the torque converter in Acura's 8DCT might cure the off-the-line issues I noticed in the Hyundai. Honda should do it.

I've been a die-hard MT driver for decades, and I never thought I'd advocate for an automatic in any enthusiast-oriented car, but I've just about had enough. My left knee has some problems, and the traffic around Philly has become so oppressive that I rarely enjoy MT the way I used to.

I'll probably go electric for my next car anyway, in which case MT is out of the question.

Hyundai's 7DCT is absolute trash. It has some performance and reliability issues.
Their 8DCT and VW's DSG are probably the only decent AT choices in the compact segment.
Or....going full electric with no transmission would be a good option too.

I agree that lack of LSD is very noticeable on their N lines. I just don't understand why they haven't added on yet.
i20N comes with E-LSD in Europe and that has the same 1.6T powertrain. They can literally grab one from their parts bin.
Maybe they're doing what Honda is doing to the Si. They want actual "N"cars to shine. Who knows.

 

[mjh]

Hyundai's 7DCT is absolute trash. It has some performance and reliability issues.
Their 8DCT and VW's DSG are probably the only decent AT choices in the compact segment.
Or....going full electric with no transmission would be a good option too.

I agree that lack of LSD is very noticeable on their N lines. I just don't understand why they haven't added on yet.
i20N comes with E-LSD in Europe and that has the same 1.6T powertrain. They can literally grab one from their parts bin.
Maybe they're doing what Honda is doing to the Si. They want actual "N"cars to shine. Who knows.

I was going to jump on this too. I gave a long look to the Elantra Sport (the predecessor to the N-line) and the Kia Forte GT, but given everything I read, I wouldn't have touched them with the 7-speed DCT. It's in a lot of different models (e.g. Kia Soul, Hyundai Kona) and it seems to have a lot of issues with jerkiness and reliability.

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